It’s hard to care about Outkast anymore.

Jul 01, 2006

It’s hard to care about Outkast anymore. · by Sach O

Remember these guys?

Am I the only person who just isn’t impressed by the new Idlewild tracks? Dre’s Blues is a decently weird singsong attempt that suffers from its squeaky clean Hiphop production while Big Boi’s Morris Brown is a whole lot of nothing, even if its original sounding nothing with those crazy drums and circus instruments. Essentially the group sound like they haven’t figured out a way to update a formula that’s gotten increasingly stale since its inception on Stankonia (a debatable move in the first place) so unless that Hard 10 album they’ve rumored actually gets released, its going to be pretty difficult to get excited about new Outkast from now on.

It wasn’t always like this, from Southernplayalisticsoutherncadilakmuzik to Aquemini Outkast’s persona was that of two regular cats rhyming about their lives. Each album showcased an increasingly sophisticated set of thematic concerns from hustling and partying to self-transformation and adolescence to one’s social and environmental impact. Not exactly your standard subject matter in ANY genre of music and unlike the prog-rock dinosaurs, Outkast found a way to keep it fly and fun for the listener instead of heady and pretentious. Like a more dramatic Tribe Called Quest with pop flair, they managed to drop knowledge and evolve musically without alienating (no pun intended) a core audience of Hiphop fans. Even Erykah Badu’s LSD laced genitals couldn’t ruin the group since Dre took the weirdness in stride and just got iller on the mic.

Then Stankonia happened. Andre Benjamin went out the window and in came Andre 3000, a sex-obsessed caricature that nonetheless had his moments: Mumble in the Jungle, Red Velvet, Spaghetti Junction and Gasoline Dreams among other Stankonia songs all featured classic Dre verses and his production reached new heights even if the material was lighter and less intricate. Since then, however things have gone to hell with his saccharine mess of a Prince album and now his fake bluesman movie-character on wax. Soundtrack-shmountrack, no one’s trying to hear dude’s Triplettes de Belleville attempt. Cats talk about how Dre’s conversion to singing ruined Outkast, but Dre’s post millennial move from depressed teenaged poet to wannabee-funkster is the true annoyance. Dude went from one of rap’s best chroniclers of emotional alienation to a bad womanizer who sounds more comfortable on a Gwen Stephanie record than his own material. Truly, I have no idea why the hell this happened. Maybe the man just got happier in which case it’s kind of hard for me to really demand anything, but I think it’s just laziness. I mean, people still haven’t gotten up to complain about it so maybe Dre said “fuckit, I guess I can do this simple shit and sell some extra records and still keep my rep as a crazy creative rapper”. Us rap nerds noticed Andre. We definitely noticed.

Big Boi meanwhile has been in a holding pattern since Andre essentially bounced. Like Phife, Big Boi’s a dope rapper but he’s infinitely better with his partner to back him up although his solo disc was at least enjoyable last time around. He’s never been a particularly good label executive though so the whole Purple Ribbon thing is a bust and I just wish he would go out and get some darker beats for the sake of variety seeing as he’s worn the whole space-funk concept further into the ground than Timbo’s stutter-step. Hopefully Killer Mike’s recent Dungeon Fam diss either knocks him out of his funk or forces him to pay attention to the one quality MC he’s signed (but that’s another story altogether).

Compared to fellow Dungeon Fam member Cee-Lo who’s enjoying the fruits of an effortless pop album (hint: the man can actually sang), Outkast’s new music sounds tired and irrelevant as they continue their downward spiral. The whole 30’s thing is cute but it’s the kind of gimmick that’s anticlimactic when we need to wait 3 years for another album. I’m not saying Outkast should be working with Dangermouse, on the contrary his pop stuff would further muck them up, but a change of sonic scenery would definitely not kill them at this point. On the other hand, if their dope material is behind them, it’s not that bad. Think about it: most artists would kill for a catalogue as deep as Kast’s 90’s output, even if it may be time to tone down expectations for the future due to the self-indulgent style exercises they’re putting out. Nothing says that Hiphop’s Beatles * aren’t going to plod on with a string of mediocre releases for the next 20 years if we don’t stop them. You know, like Hiphop Rolling Stones.

*album wise and for comparison’s sake. I acknowledge the flawed analogy.

Comments for "It’s hard to care about Outkast anymore."

Amen. I always say, It’s great to stretch the boundaries as long at the end of the day, you spit. As long as you have dope 16’s in the midst of your cluster-fuck of creativity, then fine. But when that is lacking it just seems like another musical effort that my black ass wants to stay away from. I agree with on on the Big boi and phife comparison, it’s kind of like Scottie Pippen in a way. They are dope, but they don’t really go off unless the number one man is running shit. Sorry for this lenghty ass comment, peace.

Humanity F. Critic

— HumanityCritic Jul 1, 02:50 PM
yeah, I basically agree with this post. Triplettes de Belleville did have a really good soundtrack. Dope movie all around.

I’ve always like Big Boi quite a lot, probably more than most. But then I’ve also thought that there should have been more Phife on the great Tribe albums (except for on People’s Instinctive MAN he was awful in almost every way on that)

— David Jul 1, 03:13 PM
i think your heading would better read “it hard to care about outkast if you’re only evaluating their output as hip hop.”

they make good music.

when they rap, it’s good too.

when dre does the prince/g.clinton cover steez it’s still good output it’s just not some rap shit.

if they stuck to the 90’s formula they would have gone the way of damn near everyone else in the 90’s ...irrelevant and dated.

so i can’t be mad at them and i enjoy what they’re doing.

i wasn’t impressed by the recent idlewild leaks but they weren’t bad either. it’s best to say they’re washed up if the whole album doesn’t move you/me/everyone.

plus – i’m hoping you’re wrong.

— r Jul 1, 07:39 PM
like david, I always liked big boi a lot.

And it always seems like andre was the “crazy” member, and big boi would try to stay on the same level so he would also wear some nonsense clothes, even though his innerself would know he was not like that.

I’m certainly imaginating all that though.

— djeff Jul 1, 08:20 PM
Hip hop’s Beatles? Nah.

I see them as more paralell to Miles Davis.

Aside from the fact that he kept improving after the third album.

— Big Walt Jul 1, 11:51 PM
i’ve never seen it described better…badu’s lsd laced genitals.

great stuff. good commentary. they gave us some great records.

on the solo tip….they haven’t produced. the sum is definitely greater than the parts with outkast.

— Vik Jul 2, 01:19 AM
I had a hard time caring about OutKast ever since Andre 3000 went Prince. People criticized my review but I stand by it – Andre needs to stop singing and go back to rapping.

— DJ Flash Jul 2, 01:21 AM
big boi is much nicer than phife. outkast when rhyming were much more akin to de la in the fact that both mc’s were very similar skill wise.

— kimani Jul 3, 08:21 AM
HIPHOP needs to quit singing and get back to RAPPING.

— lou Jul 4, 09:36 PM
Kimani is right. Big Boi > Phife. Nothing against Phife, but that’s almost an insult to Big Boi. The only way they are comparable is that they both rhymed with vastly more popular left-field rappers; however, ATCQ would have been just as successful without Phife. The same is definitely not true of Kast w/ respect to Big Boi.

I was impressed by “Mighty O” and “Morris Brown,” but was not feeling “Idlewild Blues.” I thought that Stankonia was a step back, and SB/TLB was a big step back (but almost every double album is a mess); however, despite the fact that they make more bad decisions than they used to—that’s inevitable when you’re trying to be “original”—and despite the fact that they may no longer produce cohesive, classic albums, they still produce great songs that rival the best in their catalogue. For that reason, I think that people should cool out on the “Kast is over” movement that’s been gaining steam since they blew up so big that their songs are covered on “Kidz Bop”

— eauhellzgnaw Jul 5, 08:22 AM
Definitely not the only one:

http://straightbangin.blogspot.com/2006/07/better-than-yours-break-ups-to-make.html

— Joey Jul 11, 02:13 PM
Honestly,

You need to get off the “backpacker” I heart hip hop from 1995 golden era hi p hop is wack horse.

Its 2006 and hip hop has been out for almost 30 years. Get off this recycled garbage tip.

Just cuz cats want to change up the game and do some differne tshit, there is no need to shit on it.

“pop” prince album as it may be. The shit was written so god damn well its redcolous. Written as in song writing, as in someone with talent other than “yo yo yo yo yo” had to sit down and flesh out a proper song. Andre 3000 did this, he sang all his parts, he played guitar in alot of them etc. etc. Kanye dont play instruments, Paul wall doesnt playa guitar.

Fuck that shit, “effortless” do you understand how well these songs were written?

Oh.. hip hop from 1994… hrmmmm

boom bap right? wait, lets sample and time stretch these rock drums that we jacked from this record onto our AKAI sampler (1 hour total), then lets add that same fucking jazz bassline to he ASR-10… and oh oh oh lets use this dope synth i got from my boy and throw the stabs and lead lines in…. oh oh an dhit loop for the 4 minutes and just RHYME. No change on the hook, no bridge, and song structure. Just copy and paste like EVERYONE ELSE… cuz this is “real hip hop”

I’m not shitting on the boom bap of the 90’s but man, that was the 90’s. LET it go. When cats push shit.. give htem props, good or bad. Just cuz they are. Its easy to do what was done, real easy.

Not to hate, but this article is just so biased its unbelievable.

I’ve loved outkast from day one (yes i own EVERY single album WHEN THEY CAME OUT), and i feel the position thye are in is perfect and NO ONE is doing this. Maybe its cuz im black and i enjoy rock music, electronic music, and everything under the son. So when someone flips it, i enjoy that. (ala N.E.R.D.)

but who am I right? you have the mic..

-DLake
dlake@thedlake.com
www.thedlake.com

— DLake Jul 17, 12:50 AM
“Maybe its cuz (..) i enjoy rock (...)everything under the son.”

I’d wager that might have something to do with it. I tend to have very discriminating tastes and have never been shy about disliking both terrible, boring backpacker rap or vapid, dumb dance music. Back in 98 I got shit for dissing indie 12’’ rappers and its been a trip to see the same people who were mad at me then bitch up and complain when I knock a bad Timbaland production or Outkast joint today. I may hate, but I think I’m quite fair at it.

However, and this is the ironic part. I checked out your website and I actually like some of the music you have on there. Your dismissal of the mid 90’s steez in that post is puzzling however, seeing as you actually make music, you should appreciate the difficulty of creating that shit with limited means before all of these computer production programs and home studios.

Anyways, yes the article is biased. It was a piece of opinion. You’re entitled to yours, I’m entitled to mine. I just don’t see the point of getting so emotional over it.

— Sach Jul 17, 01:06 AM
Besides, I’m sure we can both sit down and enjoy the Gnarls Barkley album or something. Even if Cee Lo didn’t play any instruments on it and Dangermouse used samples.

— Sach Jul 17, 01:12 AM
The effort it took to make the music does not determine the quality of the music in actual musical terms.

— David Jul 17, 01:47 AM
“i think your heading would better read “it hard to care about outkast if you’re only evaluating their output as hip hop.”

they make good music.

when they rap, it’s good too.”

Basically on point.

That’s one funny thing about leaving rap (figuratively) or joining rap, it can be like leaving or trying to enter the mob.

Hip-Hop fans like rap and they respect other types of music but when other types of musicians try to get inolved with Hip-Hop or when Hip-Hop artists try to get involved in other stuff, that’s when the Rap congress closes ranks.

That goes for everything, from the wack ass “Rap-Rock” of groups like Limp Bizkit or Korn, to the GREAT! Prince-esque Pop album Andre 3000 released.

— Epitome Jul 17, 10:40 AM
People are assuming I’m attacking the entire strain of pop music that Andre is working in and that’s simply untrue. I’m only criticising his particular contriutions to it. It’s all a matter of opinion of course but to me, there are several groups that do the kind of thing Andre tries to, to much better effect. Indie pop band Of Montreal’s two last albums Sunlandic Twins and Satanic Panic in the Attic hit the future-pop nail on the head and the aformentioned Gnarls Barkley project also does it for me. To me Andre is passable as a singer (he’s no Cee-Lo) and his work occasionally comes off as too derivative of his influences, not to mention his (again, in my opinion) corny penchant for vocal jazz which he’s indulged in on his last two projects. This doesn’t mean I think Andre’s a bad artist, but I would recommend he find an outside producer to focus his songwriting and play to his strengths rather than his weaknesses. Even Paul McCartney sounded better with George Martin. I think Andre’s made some poor decisions recently but that doesn’t nullify the fact that he’s a talented artist. If he DOES stick to his guns on this one though, I heartily recommend he get some help because he’s NOT Prince and can’t do it all alone. There’s no shame in that though.

Hopefully this clears up my position. I don’t dislike what Andre’s doing in THEORY nor am I biased against it due to his previous work. I’d love to love their new stuff…its just that I can’t because it doesn’t sound up to par to my ears.

Incidentally, don’t tell anyone but I always liked that Fred Durst song with Method Man and DJ Premier. I just kind of wish it didn’t have Fred Durst on it.

— Sach Jul 17, 11:11 AM
HAHA!

Sach,

you’re awesome man. I wrote you off the wrong way. You know your shit brotha man.

Wow… you opened me up to some stuff. And yes, I can 100% appreciate the boom bap of the past, only have 3 things to make some HOT SHIT… now thats talent. The less you have the more comes out. So true.

But yea man, you really know your music shit (unlike alot of “hip hop” fans who only know hip hop and nothing of where hip hop pulls its material).

So to the public, I APOLOGIZE to you, and yes… we could all sit around a camp fire, smoking a blunt and rocking out to the new Gnarls Barkley (and i love what danger mouse did sampling wise)... cuz that is a DAMN GOOD Album.

ps- Thanx for the props on my music, im going to hit you up with an email.

— DLake Jul 17, 11:35 AM
Oh Sach,

email me your email address
dlake@thedlake.com

— DLake Jul 17, 11:38 AM
One of the tracks on your website sounds Fire! but it cuts off before it really begins.

— Epitome Jul 17, 12:14 PM
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— Adipex Jun 4, 04:12 PM
http://mood.ms/

— Eoglicx Aug 17, 08:34 PM
Yo you gotta leave Dre alone man. Even with his switch in his songs he still is a legend along with Big Boi in the rap game.If you dislike his style thats you but you cant discredit him for what he does cus unlike you there are many ppl do dig it. Sometimes if ppl would step out of the box and listen to what he says you can see where he comes from. Listen to the song Millionaire with him and Kelis, he speaks some true shit but you gotta know how to analyze rap to understand him.

— Bushhead Nov 1, 12:24 PM
They may not be as good as they once were, but Aquemini will always be my favorite album.

— Andrew Nov 1, 11:50 PM
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— association Aug 11, 11:34 AM