Ghostface - tell your blogging crew to Be Easy

Jan 08, 2007

Ghostface - tell your blogging crew to Be Easy · by Rafi Kam

Brolic arm, hyperbolic swarm

I was going to blog about this before new year’s but I wanted to make sure nobody missed it so here goes….

You people need to chill with the Ghostface hyperbole.

Jeff, I’m a fan and all but when you said … “No musician since Led Zeppelin in 1969 has had as good a year as Ghostface’s 2006.”

I really have to wonder, are you out of your fucking mind? This wasn’t even Ghostface’s best year unless you prefer quantity to quality.

The man put out two very good albums. Both make my top 5 for the year. And I’m not going to argue with anyone who wants to give them the top two spots.

Personally, I’ll take Game Theory which is the first hip-hop album in a while that has had the heart to try meaning something the whole way through and the skill to deliver. For me that album provided both a new sense of focus and a shoulder to cry on, the right prescription for these miserable times.

But I enjoyed the hell out of both Ghostface offerings…. to a point. Both have filler. Neither were consistently amazing. So to call both Ghostface albums classics as you did or even “potential classics” as Graham did, reminds me of that (truly classic) scene from The Princess Bride where Inigo Montoya says to Vizzini, who has found everything “Inconceivable”:

“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

A potential classic doesn’t become your 15th favorite album of the year a week later.

Some more stuff that just made no sense from you guys:

“In a sense, Ghostface represents a bridge from the so called underground to the mainstream. Those are nebulous (and perhaps meaningless) terms (like the old conscious-ignant divide) and, as so many people have said, the true dichotomy should be between dope and wack. (The dualities though still have currency in the discourse about hip-hop, both internal and external.) But, in any case, what I mean to say when I invoke those words is that Ghostface, through Def Jam, is bringing subterranean dudes like Madlib and DOOM and Dilla in touch with listeners who might otherwise ignore or avoid them, for whatever reason.”

This isn’t five or six years ago. Madlib and MF Doom aren’t wallowing in obscurity. Ghostface isn’t really that much more popular than either of those guys. They all already share the same fan-base. I’ll tell you what though, Ghostface did introduce me to Amy Winehouse this year and bless him for that.

Over at The Ratio’s Ghostface Man of The Year post, ks said in the comments:

“Is Ghostface’s 2006 is as good as anyone’s year in hip-hop ever? It’s just got to be.”

Marinate on that one for a minute…...

I’m seriously scratching my head here. You guys really think these albums are so flawless and represent something bigger than themselves, something that “gave us all hope for the Future of Hip-Hop and, furthermore, the return of truly dope shit to the forefront of the culture” ?

This isn’t me hating. They’re both dope albums to me but for real neither one can really hang with Supreme Clientele.

Ghostface does not have five solo classics Jeff, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the best catalog in rap history or that he isn’t a valid contender for the greatest of all time. But it’s not all perfection. It makes it hard to read all your thoughts on him if it’s all about how every little thing he does (from rejecting his doll’s design to his def jam fight club character to fathering Sun God) is magic.

Note: I’m not unaware of the irony of this post coming from a guy whose website spent a feature article dissecting a Ghostface skit and then turned him into the only cool Peanuts character.

Comments for "Ghostface - tell your blogging crew to Be Easy"

glad someone is telling the truth. i think more writers were upset with the current state of hiphop, so something that seemed to be so different turned into the flagship lp. like hell hath no fury.

— khal Jan 8, 06:32 PM
^”They’re both dope albums to me but for real neither one can really hang with Supreme Clientele.”

Co-effin sign.

— Combat Jack Jan 8, 06:50 PM
“don’t even touch my clothes…i’m good.”

http://www.viceland.com/int/dd.php?id=538&country=us

— extra p that sat by the door Jan 8, 06:51 PM
Word to almost all of this. As a co-worker of mine said, this is the year “white people” (read: non-rap fans) discovered Ghostface and the rest of us have to deal with that. Fine albums, but still maybe his third and fourth or fifth best.

— Sean Jan 8, 06:59 PM
I’m a fan of Ghost (and a fan of Passion of the Weiss incidentally. and I read like 10 blogs total so I actually mean that) but I agree that this year dude caught a wave of blog-hype that skimmed past the flaws of his albums (Fishscale far more so than More Fish which I argue gets UNDER-rated in some circles).

But yeah, long story short its not even Ghost’s best year. Whereas I think Clipse (and Roots) delivered some of the strongest material in their career, Ghost kind of got on by being Ghost.

And yes, I also aknowledge that this post is hypocritical coming from us.

— Sach Jan 8, 07:03 PM
”(Fishscale far more so than More Fish which I argue gets UNDER-rated in some circles).”

I agree with that, for the most part. I really didn’t see much love for More Fish at all, except for a few places (most of which were hipster blogs). I’m still a big fan of both, hell, Fishscale is my favorite of 06, but neither are touching Ironman or Supreme.

— Train Jan 8, 07:32 PM
And…I just read the Weiss article. While his blog usually isn’t bad, the Ghost riding in there was kinda ridiculous.

— Train Jan 8, 07:42 PM
Fair enough. I see your points and understand where you’re coming from. Like any artist, Ghostface is not infallible. But if you examine the landscape of hip-hop today and the career of the man, I don’t see how its possible for someone to not want to give him his due, especially considering he’s long been slept on. (And no, I’m not some Johnny Come Lately, I bought Ironman the week it came out in 96).

So maybe this is an example of me wanting to give Bob Dylan the Grammy for Time out of Mind rather than for Blonde on Blonde, Bringing It All Back Home, or Highway 61, but that being said, it doesn’t change the fact that Ironman and Supreme Clientele are pretty much perfect and I’ll throw down for Fishscale anyday for being a masterpiece. As for More Fish, it’s better than Pretty toney and Bulletproof Wallets, which means its in the top 20 best hip-hop albums made in this decade. That’s just my opinion.

The crux of your argument seems to be that these albums are both Top 5 records but somehow he isn’t worthy of being highly praised for doing that. That just doesn’t make that much sense to me and seems contradictory. Are they as good as Ironman and Supreme Clientele? Probably not. Then again, those two albums are two of the 25 best ever made. To use Dylan again, is it unfair to criticize John Wesley Harding, Freewheeling Bob Dylan, The Times Must Be a Changin, Desire or Time Out of Mind for not being Highway 61. I think it is.

In my opinion both More Fish and Fishscale represent a late career renaissance that no rapper has ever had. Look, you and I both admire Rakim, Kane and Public Enemy but you tell me if The 18th Letter and New World Odor (or whatever its called) are as good as Fishscale or More Fish. Of course, they aren’t.

Bottom line is that this is an artist I’ve long admired who dropped two great albums late in his career, solidifying his legacy as one of the all-time greats. That’s something I highly admire in any artist. Staying fresh and evolving is never easy, particularly in the rap game. No rap artist has ever been this good, this late in his career. Or do we have to listen to Kingdom Come again.

I admit, these albums have their flaws. But how many hip-hop albums ever made don’t? 15? 20? How many wack 2Pac songs and Biggie are there and yet still people laud them as untouchable.

Raf, I respect your points, though I feel me and Gravity’s Rainbow are being unfairly singled out when there are several other prominent hip-hop blogs that have written similarly effusive praise for Ghostface in the past year. What I wrote wasn’t a full-fledged album review. If it was, you better believe I’d mention the low-points. That skit about “Butt St.” was damned near retarded. And that last track with Biggie seems redundant. I’m not above seeing the flaws. However, in a year end review such as the one you chose to excerpt, I chose to look at the album as a whole, not as a track by track summary.

In the end, Hey, it’s my opinion. This is yours. I respect it. You guys have a great blog and I’m a fan, regardless of a divergence of opinion (which seems awfully minor, to be quite honest). But ultimately, I do stand by my opinion. Fishscale is a classic album in my book. Many people agree. You might not. That’s okay. I might have jumped the gun in calling More Fish a classic, but its close. All in all, it seems like we’re quibbling between an A versus an A- or a B+. And really, if anything, that demonstrates why I feel Ghost is worthy of the hyberbole. Because we can argue over the details, but both of us agree in the big picture.

— Jeff Jan 8, 07:48 PM
Let me break it down like this: I work in a public library, and you truly get a look at many branches of the unwashed masses. There just aren’t that many attractive people that come through the door, at least not at the branch where I work. When anything remotely cute and female walks in the door, she gets an automatic bevy of looks that she might not get on the street. She may not be all that hot, but compared to the rest of the teeming humanity huddled in the stacks she’s Salma Hayek. We refer to the phenomena as being “libary hot,” meaning you probably wouldn’t look twice if you saw her anywhere else.

2006 was Ghost’s year of library hotness. Granted, Ghost is genuinely one of my favorite emcees these days, but it’s in comparison to all the other garbage out there that he gets so much praise. Not a lot of competition for that praise in ‘06, sadly enough.

I agree that it’s a little hyperbolic, but music reviews always are. It is what it is. I’d rather see Ghost getting the love than Lil Wayne or Jim Jones.

— ignatiusmonkey Jan 8, 07:48 PM
It’s all love Jeff. This isn’t blogger beef or anything of the kind as I would hope could be clear from the fact that I’ve linked to content on all three of these blogs before and will continue to do so.

Like Sach, I consider your blog one of the best I know of and you’re definitely a knowledgeable dude.

I chose to single you, Graham and ks out only because you all posted in the same week and seemed to be feeding off each other’s energy. Each new post taking it one step further. (I think yours came first for the record.)

It was also the same week as Sach’s glowing More Fish review where you first made a variation of that Led Zeppelin remark as a comment.

When I saw that comment turn into the “best year of any rap artist ever” or the “best year of any musician in 40 years” I felt like we had indirectly created a monster.

Actually I felt we directly created one because until I started writing this post today I had mistakenly thought the original Led Zeppelin line was Sacha’s.

The only reason I didn’t post on it in mid-December is I got caught up in a flurry of other end-of-year activity.

“The crux of your argument seems to be that these albums are both Top 5 records but somehow he isn’t worthy of being highly praised for doing that.”

Definitely worthy of praise and I enjoy unbridled enthusiasm but I also just want to view it with an honest eye.

Anyway, it’s cool with me if you guys are total Ghost fanboys. I just need to give you some shit for it, that’s all.

— rafi Jan 8, 09:19 PM
Most anti-climactic blog dispute in the history of the internet? You be the judge!

Although if I may start some shit, I’d put Bulletproof Wallets ahead of both of Ghost’s 06 albums assuming we include the uncleared material from those sessions.

— Sach Jan 8, 09:28 PM
>> Most anti-climactic blog dispute in the history of the internet?

runner up?

— rafi Jan 8, 09:38 PM
I’m just mad because I can’t get a clever nick-name like Peter “Mind of Macia.” Fuck.

— Jeff Jan 8, 09:59 PM
>> runner up?

Nope. You must mean this one

— Sach Jan 8, 10:36 PM
wow i’m not reading the long comments on your post and i dont read the other blogs u pointed out but the ones I read pretty much talked the same nonsense about ghost to the point that i no longer took anything they posted to serious cause it showed me how bias and off their opinions actually were. I LOVE Ghost but I agree with everything u said above.

“This wasn’t even Ghostface’s best year unless you prefer quantity to quality.”

Cosign. And unfortunately way to many ppl do put quantity over quality.

— Southern Bred Jan 8, 11:00 PM
It’s cool to like Ghostface…just like it’s cool to like Clipse, and cool to like Lupe Fiasco. Ghost had two dope albums last year, but to totally kiss his ass like that is just ridiculous. And this is coming from a die hard Wu-Tang fan.

— Enigmatik Jan 9, 12:16 AM
I just love Ghostface, ok?

— Graham Jan 9, 12:48 AM
It’s possible that I went overboard. But like Graham, I just fucking love Ghost.

And I don’t think Supreme Clientele is the be all and end all where Ghost is concerned. I’ve had that record on a lot this year, and while it is of course absolutely outstanding, I just think Fishscale outdoes it. Now that my initial euphoria over More Fish has faded a bit, I grant you that it is not the absolute bestest thing ever, but it is a hell of a thing nonetheless.

RE: 2006 being the year white people found out about Ghostface: I have been staunchly Wu Tang since discovering 36 Chambers A MERE THREE YEARS after its release. (I really don’t know what I was doing 1993 through 1996. It’s hazy.)

Anyway, thanks for reading, if only to denounce.

— KS Jan 9, 01:16 AM
Ghost is making some ridiculous songs right now. Is he on the level of Cube, Kane, Rakim, Face and the like at their primes? Probably not, but it’s not totally impossible for us to be saying that 10 years from now. Do the 2 albums he dropped this year mean that he’s the GOAT right now, or that no one has had a year like that in 40 years? That’s just crazy.

I loved Fishscale, warts and all, primarily because of Ghost’s performance. Neither it, nor More Fish is classic; but they have some sick, slick moments that make me marvel at the man’s abilities. There aren’t many rappers doing that as much as Ghost is, hence the hyperbole. Nas, Monch, Brewin, Doom are amazing when they’re on, but Ghost’s style and personality rival his lyrics and creativity. All of this makes him the best rapper on the planet right now, hands down.

Some people blow this out of proportion given the lackluster state of MCing. This is responsible for the superlative claims from rap heads (a number of them have dubbed mediocre post-90s albums classics). The fact that hipsters are just discovering Ghost is responsible for their superlative claims about him. The praise they’re heaping on Ghost may be extreme, but at least it’s more appropriate than that they’re giving to Lil Wayne.

— eauhellzgnaw Jan 9, 01:22 AM
Also, about this:

”’Is Ghostface’s 2006 is as good as anyone’s year in hip-hop ever? It’s just got to be.’

“Marinate on that one for a minute…...”

If that is so retarded (note that I am open to the possibility that it is indeed retarded), who do you think obviously tops 2006 Ghost for quality and quantity?

— KS Jan 9, 01:28 AM
I compiled this list drunk at 2 AM in 20 mins using only wikipedia. These are the most obvious people I searched. As criteria I sited quantity, my idea of quality, popularity and what I see as influence in the respective artists best years. You dont limit the debate to strictly mcs in the above question so neither did I. I hope the wealth of at least debatable contestants who topped Ghost’s 2006 sheds some light on the absurdity of this argument.
Eazy E & Dr. Dre- 1988
Ice Cube- 1992
DJ Premier- 1994
Pete Rock- 1994
Rza- 1994, 1995, 1996
2pac- 1996
Jay z- 1996
Timbaland- 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001
50 Cent- 2002 (mixtapes count, please don’t front)
Will.I.Am- 2006
Kanye- 2004, 2005, 2006
Again this list could be built on for hours including a couple of years for ghostface.

— Bkbomber Jan 9, 03:30 AM
I compiled this list drunk at 2 AM in 20 mins using only wikipedia. These are the most obvious people I searched. As criteria I sited quantity, my idea of quality, popularity and what I see as influence in the respective artists best years. You dont limit the debate to strictly mcs in the above question so neither did I. I hope the wealth of at least debatable contestants who topped Ghost’s 2006 sheds some light on the absurdity of this argument.
Eazy E & Dr. Dre- 1988
Ice Cube- 1992
DJ Premier- 1994
Pete Rock- 1994
Rza- 1994, 1995, 1996
2pac- 1996
Jay z- 1996
Timbaland- 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001
50 Cent- 2002 (mixtapes count, please don’t front)
Will.I.Am- 2006
Kanye- 2004, 2005, 2006
Again this list could be built on for hours including a couple of years for ghostface.

— Bkbomber Jan 9, 03:30 AM
I think what Jeff was shooting for was that if you look at Ghostface’s production in the year 2006, compiled with all of his previous works, there’s no doubt that you have to place him in the top 10 of all time great MC’s.

Sure, Pitchfork and Blender and crew all hopped on the Tony Starks Express this year (like Hova didn’t have SOMETHING to do with that). And because of sites and magazines like those, it IS cool to like Ghostface, Clipse and Lupe. But Ghostface has been putting it down for almost 15 years and is more consistent with his albums that Nas, Jay-Z and all of his Wu-Tang brethren. Yet no one outside of the internet seems to realize this. I think the reviewers who lauded both of Ghost’s albums this year appreciate his catalogue first, his current work second, and his place in history third.

Is Ghost in your top 10 of all time? With each Ghost album and with each brick LL Cool J/ Snoop/ Ice Cube puts out (10 years and counting now), he’s in mine.

— Rap Jack Bauer Jan 9, 10:18 AM
Zilla,

I said he may very well have the best catalog in hip-hop history so yes I consider him one of the greats and his longevity is to be celebrated.

That doesn’t change the thing I’m complaining about. Good quality work shouldn’t be heralded as amazing groundbreaking work.

There’s a passage in Jeff’s post when he’s comparing Ghost’s work to Led Zeppelin’s which reads like Ghostface is for the most part putting out consistently unbelievable albums.

That’s all I take issue with. But then again I haven’t really been big on Zeppelin since high school…

— rafi Jan 9, 10:48 AM
FIRST THINGS FIRST GHOSTFACE IS ONE OF NOT TOO MANY WHO STAYS TRUE TO HIMSELF AND HIS FANBASE. AND SINCE BLOGS ARE THE NEW WAY OF HYPE. YOU’RE GOING ON SOMEONE ELSE’S OPINION. I’VE BEEN A GHOST FAN FROM DAY ONE. HE REPRESENTS EVERYTHING THATS HIP HOP. SO YOUR FAVORITE RAPPER DIDN’T GET THE ATTENTION YOU THOUGHT THEY SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN. LET PRETTY TONY GET HIS DOUGH. EACH ONE TEACH ONE.

— blitz65 Jan 9, 11:03 AM
“Eazy E & Dr. Dre- 1988
Ice Cube- 1992
DJ Premier- 1994
Pete Rock- 1994
Rza- 1994, 1995, 1996
2pac- 1996
Jay z- 1996
Timbaland- 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001
50 Cent- 2002 (mixtapes count, please don’t front)
Will.I.Am- 2006
Kanye- 2004, 2005, 2006”

See, now some of those I can see, and others I think are pretty ridiculous. But that’s how these things go.

Thanks for the list, though. Not limiting it to MCs broadens the scope of what I’d been thinking about when I made my (possibly absurd? possibly EXTREMELY accurate?) initial statement.

— KS Jan 9, 12:37 PM
Don’t fuck with Ghost, ya feel SORRY.

— The Centipede Stab Wound Jan 9, 12:51 PM
How about Ghostface himself?

1995-1997, 2000

— Rafi Jan 9, 01:08 PM
fuck i’ve been listening to Ghost and Wu for years and I just think Fishscale and More Fish are his two best albums. Maybe it’s my taste for these kinds of beats, but what about the obsession with Ironman? I acknowledge that Supreme Clientele is unfuckwithable, but does anyone think maybe this blog is goin too far the other way? I don’t think Ironman even approaches either Fishscale or More Fish, and I think a lot of people here are just tryin to appear “authentic” or “true fans” by sayin it does.

— bschac Jan 9, 02:55 PM
Man I hadn’t seen that Wu-Peanuts shit. Shit is hilarious.

— hoosteen Jan 9, 02:59 PM
I was having this convo with someone the other day. Ironman isn’t that great especially in comparison with the other first wave wu solo records from the mid 90s. The truth about Ghostface is that he gets so much better as he gets older.

Never would I think that I would get taken to task by Ghostface fans for loving Ghostface so much.

— Graham Jan 9, 03:06 PM
Amen for this post, Rafi.

If I stayed in the comments sections of blogs adressing all the flagrant and wild disrespectful stuff I read, I’d do nothing else every day!

— ian Jan 9, 03:44 PM
The only things wrong with Ironman is that they should’ve cut “Motherless Child” (it was fine as a soundtrack song, but ruins the flow of the album) and “All That I got is You,” which is Ghost’s most overrated song.

The production on Ironman is flawless. Ghost, Rae and Cappa tear it up. It may not be Cuban Linx or Liquid Swords, but it is a great album and the most soulful Wu album ever created.

Fishscale, on the other hand, has the weak Biggie joint, “Momma,” “Dogs of War” “Be Easy,” “Back Like That” all of which are mediocre for Ghost. Plus it has the recycled Doom beats (though Ghost sounds great over them). Again, I think the rest of Fishscale is insane, but there’s no way that album is as cohesive and fresh as Ironman or Supreme Clientele, despite that Fishscale contains some of his best songs and that Ghost is an even better lyricist and personality than he used to be.

— eauhellzgnaw Jan 9, 03:47 PM
Be Easy is mediocre???!?

— Graham Jan 9, 03:55 PM
I just wanted to clarify for a second exactly why I picked Led Zeppelin, though again, this discussion really boils down to which Ghostface albums do you prefer, again reiterating why my post might have been hyperbole but grounded in some sort of truth. But basically, I picked Led Zepp and 1969 because that year they debuted with Led Zep I and II. Like Ghostface, you can and probably should argue that Led Zep IV/Supreme Clientele is their best album. However, I think two great albums in one year is a monumental achievement for any artist. It’s not a quantity vs. quality issue. Most people it seems agree that Fishscale/More Fish are quality. I never said it was his best album. I just said it was a great album. Which I still stand by. Same with Led Zeppelin’s first two albums. Bottom line is tell me when another rapper has produced two albums in the same year of a similar level of quality. No one has yet to answer that question which is basically the gist of what I’m saying. That’s all.

— Jeff Jan 9, 04:02 PM
taken as full songs (lyrics and beat) I don’t get how you can say be easy and back like that are mediocre, eauhellz. be easy is great lyrically and the beat’s nasty, and tho ghost isn’t a revelation lyrically on back like that, it’s a hell of a beat (I might actually like the remix w/ kanye and more ne-yo on it better).

— bschac Jan 9, 05:40 PM
You cant get this type of coverage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaALQSajDe4

— SADDAM Jan 9, 05:53 PM
(i) “Be Easy” is quite obviously tremendous; and

(ii) “Back Like That” has a part where Ghost threatens to send his girl cousins after the woman who has wronged him.

— KS Jan 9, 06:43 PM
“I just think Fishscale and More Fish are his two best albums. Maybe it’s my taste for these kinds of beats, but what about the obsession with Ironman?”

“Ironman isn’t that great especially in comparison with the other first wave wu solo records from the mid 90s.”

Shocking comments, and alongside “Back like that” championing? Officially approaching defensive devils advocate territory. Depending on the month, for me persoanlly “Ironman” can get consideration next to Cuban Linx and Liquid Swords for the best solo, period. I love Supreme too but Ironman, and this is about to come off as a similarly awful arbitrary comment, was the closest thing to straight front to back uncompromising hip hop Wu dropped besides “36 Chambers” Im listening to Iron Maiden as I write this. The fucking movements in the beat? BACK LIKE THAT??????? If nothing else I guess this is a great debate because half the people involved will have Ironman back in rotation until June.

— Bkbomber Jan 9, 07:23 PM
whoever said cut out motherless child from ironman is on crack. that songs amazing. but i agree with the poster. i didnt even like fishscale that much at first.

— yates Jan 9, 11:45 PM
who likes “be easy” this much?

the beat is so boring it actually makes me feel depressed and the chorus is way more annoying than “baaaallllinnn”

— David Jan 10, 12:05 AM
Fishcale is so very, very overrated. I hate 90% of the beats on that album. Can’t even conceive of how anyone could call that a classic.

— Tray Jan 10, 02:28 AM
To say that white people “discovered” Ghost this year is ridiculous. He sold so well in his first week because the CD was cheap and he had a solid fanbase that’s been intact for years. If you went to a Wu-Tang show even in 2000, the vast majority of people in the audience were dudes like me. Plus, if you check Stylus and Pitchfork’s Top of 2000-2005 lists, “Supreme Cliente” checks in at #9 and #19, respectively…about a year before “Fishscale” came out. And I think we know the ethnic makeup of these sites. The fact is, maybe “white” people were fed up with obviously inferior MC’s being touted as “the greatest alive” (read: Lil’ Wayne and his interchangeble verses, Clipse, T.I. and his non-existent personality, etc.) that it led to a little more force to be given to the praise of the admittedly excellent releases of Ghostface in 2006. He’s already got more classics than Pac and Big combined and yet, no one seems to include him in discussions for best of all-time.

— Ian Jan 10, 11:50 AM
Wow. Co-sign, Ian.

— Joey Jan 10, 12:49 PM
Heated debates, what white people call “the race card.” I love it.

1.) Yes, “Be Easy” is boring and mediocre.

2.) I know that people love “Back Like That,” but it’s a pale version of “Never Be The Same Again.”

3.) yates, read closer, skippy. I never said that “Motherless Child” wasn’t a good song; I said that it completely disrupts the flow of Ironman. I just skip it. It’s like “Knuckleheads” on Cuban Linx: it’s better to act like it doesn’t exist.

4.) Ian, white rap fans obviously didn’t discover Ghost this year, but the white indie rock heads who have recently discovered rap certainly did. Either that’s a testament how good Ghost is—so good that people with normally suspect taste in rap can see his brilliance—or that they are caught up in his image: Ghost represents the “streets” and has an over the top, ridiculous personality.

— eauhellzgnaw Jan 10, 02:21 PM
I think the “white people” in question are more of the NPR-listening, Paris Review-reading variety. People that don’t listen to much hip-hop at all, but extract one artist a year to laud as a “street poet” or some such nonsense. Ghost has long been a critical favorite, but things were particularly bizarre this year. Ghost has no bad albums, but Fishscale really lacks the cohesion of his first two albums, it’s not as playful as Bulletproof Wallets and doesn’t have Pretty Toney’s slick soul sound. It’s a stylistic mish-mash, to say nothing of More Fish, which still sounds like a tossed-together mess to me. Both enjoyable though, anything from Ghost is. If anything, hyperbolic praise for Ghost has nothing to do with excitement about Wayne or Clipse or T.I., but rather the dearth of strong underground artists and disappointing releases from major figures like Jay/Nas/Snoop/Busta/etc. I feel pretty good about Ghost being in my top 10 though.

— Sean Jan 10, 03:03 PM
These are all good points, particularly about “Knuckleheadz” breaking of the flow of “Cuban Linx” and “Motherless Child” doing the same for “Ironman.” It leads to the question: if you pooled the two albums and separated them into “Drug Rap” (“Incarcerated Scarfaces,” “Rainy Dayz,” “260,” “Motherless Child”) and rhyme-spitting/sex tracks/etc. (“Verbal Intercourse,” “Ice Cream,” “Camay”)...dear god!

My big problem in seeing both of your points of view is the fact that I can’t distinguish between the 2000 Ghost fan (who probably liked “Kid A”) and the 2006 Ghost fan (who probably liked TV On The Radio). The only difference is how developed the blog/online music site community has become in six years. Back then, you had to read both The Source AND Rolling Stone if you wanted passionate reviews about Ghostface and Modest Mouse…on most prominent online sites, they’re pretty much held in equal regard by the same writer.

— Ian Jan 11, 01:45 AM
And for what it’s worth, the token “street poet” of 2006 was definitely Clipse. A lot of people sung the praises of “Fishscale” because they thought it was a good rap album, but “Hell Hath No Fury” saw far more edification of EVENT-ness due to the whole Jive thing. See: Sasha Frere-Jones in the New Yorker.

— Ian Jan 11, 01:48 AM
This thread is a reason I prefer to review older albums that had no hype behind them.

Ghostface is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay past his prime, honkies. I’m sorry that you caught on so late in the game. He’s still good, but you girl-pants wearing Brooklyn transplants from Sheboygan will NEVER get to experience the sheer thrill of being a hip hop head in the city in 1995 popping that purple tape into a busted ass tape deck and hearing Rae and Ghost launch into the most baffling and beautiful crime stories ever crafted in rhyme. Fuck you dorks and your desperate defense of wack crap like “Be Easy.”

Disclaimer: Calm down, I’m kidding. Kind of.

— R.H.S. Jan 11, 02:59 AM
1. Ironman
2. Supreme Clientele
3. The Pretty Toney Album
4. Fishscale
5. More Fish
6. Bulletproof Wallets

— Enigmatik Jan 11, 12:03 PM
ayo son Im so New York you fraudulent white fake ass internet bitches cant even get on a thread with me for real, yall write posts, I RECOLLECT. Im so New York I got 212 tatted on my dick and I cant even nut unless Eric B for President is blasting in the background. Im so New York IZ the WIZ does conceptual design on my Christmas cards every year. Kool Herc bit my whole shit. Im so New York Hollywood stole an unpublished manuscript I wrote about my life and turned it into a movie starring Christopher Walken and Laurence Fishburne. I named my kids Nice and Smooth. Im so New York I bitch slapped Robert Moses. Im so New York for the first 15 years of my life I ate nothing but hot dogs potato knishes grape soda and roasted peanuts in wax paper bags from the same street vendor outside Madison square garden. I was baptized in the Hudson River, I was born in a cab on the West side Highway, I got snuck into the Roxy when I was 15 minutes old and won a pop-lock-off against crazy legs the same night rockin shell toe booties. My father was Earl Manigault and my mother was a Funky Drummer 45. YALL BITCHES DON’T KNOW NOTHIN BOUT THIS SHIT HERE, NEW YORK ETERNAL MOTHERFUCKERS.

— Abe Beame Jan 11, 02:44 PM
^ lol

awesome

— Rafi Jan 11, 02:47 PM
Brooklyn transplants, stand up

— Abe Beame Jan 11, 03:09 PM
nu-ghostface is overrated as fuck, end of story

— David Jan 11, 03:34 PM
Preach on brother…These kids (and I do mean kids) are like Donny from the Big Lebowski…”So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You’re like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know…”
They don’t remember back in the day becuase they don’t care and don’t need to. They were in pre-school when 36 Chambers dropped. Fish is good but it isn’t that good.

1. Supreme Clientele
2. Ironman
3. Fishscale
4. The Pretty Toney Album
5. More Fish
6. Bulletproof Wallets

— Lee Jan 26, 01:45 PM
I have been at the store the moment it opened for EVERY one of these releases and will continue to support Ghost. His catalog is untouchable.
1. Iron Man
2. Fishscale
3. Supreme Clientle
4. Pretty Toney
5. PUT IT ON THE LINE (Trife is the nastiest out!) Oh yeah, anyone heard from Icarus???
6. More Fish
7. Bulletproof Wallets (Yes BPW moves up to the top 3 if the original beats and songs are included)

— dockevoc Feb 5, 04:37 PM
ok, i’m a HUGE wu-tang fan. born in staten, even got into rap thru wu. but i honestly don’t get it. i thought fishscale was only decent (although it did include an absolute banger with “ragu”)and more fish was absolutely terrible.

must be two of the most overrated wu albums i’ve ever seen before.

— drew Feb 11, 04:53 AM
How could anyone say that Knuckleheadz breaks up the flow of Cuban Linx?? It’s a great start to the album.

— Tray Feb 17, 07:32 PM
“How could anyone say that Knuckleheadz breaks up the flow of Cuban Linx?? It’s a great start to the album.”

Cosign on this. I always loved that track.

— Train Feb 17, 09:48 PM
me three.

— rafi Feb 17, 11:36 PM
so yo, what’s the consensus…

Supreme Clientele or Iron Man

— nation Oct 6, 04:45 PM