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White emcee's burden · by Sach O
The results are in: you’ve tested negative for Hip Hop!
Question: what do you do if a Viacom subsidiary decides to make a few bucks pissing on your craft when you’re an insufferable white liberal vegan beat-poet/emcee? The smart answer would have been to let it slide, to accept it as a joke but apparently Sage Francis didn’t have any bigger fish to fry last week. Now Sage actually filed his complaint against Serch and Co. a few months before the show actually premiered, but frankly no one gave a damn until TWRS actually proved to be a relatively entertaining slice of reality TV (in its own retarded way). Sage basically accuses the show of promoting racial stereotypes, particularly those having to do with white rappers. His original letter also includes several passages where he rants about mainstream (read: current black) Hip Hop being a “30 year old child” and others where he proudly asserts his whiteness in a defiant stance against fakery. Call me cynical, but this sounds like the same whining that has alienated a generation of underground rappers from the rap audience in the first place.
(For the purpose of this article, “underground” will refer to the Hiphopsite, Sandbox and HHI built internet scene, not records as heard on Stretch and Bobbito or regional screw tapes favored by those still waiting on a NO bounce revival).
Ever since the “underground” emerged about a decade ago, there’s been a less-than-subtle attempt on the part of the artists and the fans to distance themselves from mainstream Hip Hop. Whether it was through pretentious album titles, consciously abrasive and counter-intuitive vocal patterns and concepts, associations with traditionally white forms of music or dorky clothing, white rappers positioned themselves as ideological opposites to the popular black emcees of the time. At first, this worked out pretty well: as millions of new fans discovered Hip Hop over the internet they identified with these equally melanin-deficient emcees and their anti-commercial stance. Stuck between Anticon and Miracle, a fair amount of informed listeners went with the lesser of two evils: it’s not like websites such as ours were around to inform them that a little digging could provide other options. The underground became its own genre with a star system, its own comic-book graffiti convention and musical standards. Sure older rap fans hated the white rapper delivery but fuck em! The underground had its own tastemakers!
Now it should be noted that the emcees usually weren’t the bad guys here. While the Anticon crew has developed a mythical reputation for being a bunch of huge assholes, most of these guys were genuine Hip hop fans who became victims of their own marketing ghetto, unable to connect to a wider range of fans due to their image. No one doubts El-P’s BK cred even if his Iowa fans are still arguing about the difference between rap and Hip Hop. The problem is, it’s 2007. Fans grew up and realized that the underground had become stagnant and significantly less creative than the so called mainstream. Regionalism became the new lingua franca of the rap nerd as everyone began to obsess over rare Nawlins records instead of the latest Def Jux tour CD. Some fans left rap completely jumping on the indie-rock bandwagon. Others went on to jock Dipsett or Lil Wayne.
Now suddenly the underground isn’t the vanguard of a great new movement in rap here to save us from Viacom…it’s a sad little scene of out of touch self-righteous crackers. Rap didn’t change for anyone, least of all those who held it in contempt. Sage can repeat his 80’s rap pedigree all he wants, the fact that he was even offended by The White Rapper show is proof that he’s entirely out of touch with Hip Hop at its present and has minimal authority to speak on it. A purely comedic reaction to the glut of bad music out there, the show was a spoof no more no less. By maintaining the “outsider looking in” perspective that served the underground so well in the past, Sage does little except widen the gap between his music and what actual Hip Hop fans are bumping.
There’s room for Sage Francis’ music in the world and I’ll cop to enjoying some of his major releases. But with the exception of Hope, none of them are on my rap shelf in my rap folder: they’re comfortably nestled between The Raconteurs and the Stone Roses. The underground went to great lengths to seperate itself from the mainstream to the point where it has become its own seperate subgenre…so what gives its members the right to harp on someone else’s styles and conventions? By divorcing his style almost completely from what people consider Hip Hop, Sage lost the right to represent and the right to complain.
In fact, he should really step off.
Comments for "White emcee's burden"
Well, Sage did great enough music to NOT step off; I agree his complain sounds quite stupid and out of touch, but we also know lots of “mainstream” rappers out here who can say way more ignorant things about way more ignorant subjects; I think you’re actually pissed off because you’re kinda disapointed with that attitude, or because it sort of strenghts up your theory about underground rap’s evolution (which I think is true, btw) ;so I wouldn’t blame too much Sage for that.
— djeff Mar 1, 12:58 PM
Ouch.
— eauhellzgnaw Mar 1, 01:23 PM
Sure the show was entertaining, but that doesn’t mean a lot of what Sage said wasn’t true. Besides, how can you fault a guy who rips serch’s grammar with such style,
”
Was that a question? Well…why is the sky blue. Why is water wet. Why is a period mark following these long unanswered questions.”
— green hornet Mar 1, 02:35 PM
yawn.
i’m glad somebody still cares enough about hip hop to hate on sage francis.
— dcfist Mar 1, 02:57 PM
Hey green hornet… I’ll fault the guy for you.
I can’t remember all the specifics (nor do I care to go back and re-read Sage Franchezca’s infamous diatribe) but I do recall one significant misstep in his “ripping Serch a new asshole,”... He used the VH1 show “Ice-T’s Rap School” in the bulk of his argument against Serch. That show had nothing to do with The (White) Rapper Show, and yet he referred to it constantly to defend his argument. And no one called him out on that very basic fundamental flaw. Add to the fact that the dude didn’t even see the show first but instead offered knee-jerk reactionary commentary which is completely presumptuous (or rather “prejudiced”) and is cause enough to discredit anything valid he might have to say (which is very little, IMO).
— KlashGordon Mar 1, 03:13 PM
you ohword guys can be interesting, insightful bloggers, but you tend to over-generalize often & wrongly
I listened to 1 Sage Francis album “A Healthy Distrust”. The beats sucked & the “spoken word rap steez” was annoying.
However to over-generalize that this is all their is to the “hiphopsite.com underground steez” & that that “subgenre” “is not createive”, is 100% wrong
Look at some of the solid 2006 albums outta the “HHS Underground” steez, which BTW are nothing like wack Sage Francis. With the exception of Nas & The Roots albums, these were are as good or BETTER & MORE CREATIVE than the “mainstream”
Panacea – Ink Is My Drink
Leroy Smokes – Love Hustle Theater
Shinsight Trio – Shallow Nights Blurry Moon
Wale Oyejide – Africahot!
Little Brother & DJ Drama – Separate But Equal
Akir – Legacy
Apathy – Eastern Philosophy
K-Os – Atlantis: Hymns For Disco
Murs & 9th Wonder – Murray’s Revenge
Nicolay – Here
Pigeon John – Pigeon John & the Summertime Pool Party
Soul Position – Things Go Better With RJ & Al
Strange Fruit Project – The Healing
— NoMamesBuey Mar 1, 03:36 PM
“Ever since the “underground” emerged about a decade ago, there’s been a less-than-subtle attempt on the part of the artists and the fans to distance themselves from mainstream Hip Hop.”
Every underground emcee (white, black, British, whatever) arrogantly claims they are advancing hip-hop. Heck – Jay-Z and Nas said they are “saving” hip-hop last year.
Now when white emcees say it is somehow wrong?
I applaud current white emcees for being glaringly white. That’s much better than how Serch and early white rappers aped blackness.
In the same way I appluad Toronto hip-hop for no longer imitating New York, and Houston hip-hop for no longer imitating LA.
Also there’s no burden for Rich Boy to know and respect and hip-hop’s roots, so why should white rappers be forced to do so?
With all that said Sacha, I do agree Sage should have just brushed it off – it ain’t that serious. But the creators of the show, the ego trip crew should also be dismissed for continually telling us in interviews that the show is deeper than just making a fool out of these white rappers. Sage is right – all of the redeeming factors of the show were staged and strained.
— Hashim Mar 1, 03:41 PM
I know it was no Sin-A-Matic but where is Louis? Was that 05 or something?
— Abe Beame Mar 1, 03:45 PM
i hate sage as an artist.
— khal Mar 1, 04:17 PM
HipHopSite & Sandbox have given me the most shit service out of all, (6 in total), the internet ordering sites I have messed with. Damn, is was lucky to even receive anything from hiphopsite
— Swag Diesel Mar 1, 05:08 PM
“Every underground emcee (white, black, British, whatever) arrogantly claims they are advancing hip-hop. Heck – Jay-Z and Nas said they are “saving” hip-hop last year.
Now when white emcees say it is somehow wrong?”
Answer: It is wrong.
From my experience, most underground rappers still want to believe they are a part of the hip hop timeline. It’s one thing to consider yourself part of the hip hop tradition versus those who define themselves against it. (and Jay-Z and Nas have more hip hop in their toenails than Sage does in his whole body, hair follicles included). White rappers such as Sage separate/segregate themselves from the timeline/tradition/culture based expressly on their white cultural preferences (emo, emphasis on technical ability, etc.), and their audience, who are arguable even less hip hop, reflects that.
Fans will rattle off “real emcees” like Aesop Rock, Glue, Sage, Slug, etc and lump them all together in the same breath, while not including (for example) Can Ox, Mr. Lif or whoever. They will then say how much their music is real hip hop. Well, that’s an opinion, and that’s fine. The problem is that it’s a thinly veiled preference for a characteristically white perspective and approach to the music at the neglect or expense of other types (i.e.: “black”) forms of the music.
In other words, that’s called white supremacy. That is a serious problem.
— KlashGordon Mar 1, 05:17 PM
You guys are too polite. Where’s the mob with pitchforks and racial insults? I should have gone after Jeezy.
Response to NoMamesBuey : I honestly believe there’s been a serious crash in underground hip hop in recent years. Compare 05-06 to the previous years and practically nothing of consequence came out other than Edan (again my opinion). The genre is stagnating and suffering even worse than Hip Hop in general.
That said, the larger point of the post was that artists who distance themselves from Hip Hop to that extreme come off as outsiders and inconsequential when they suddenly decide to comment on the broader culture. If they want to go in the opposite direction than the rest of Hip Hop and remain in their underground ghetto, fine but they lose authority on the subject. I like some of Sage Francis’ music as I stated, but his comments come off as extremely elitist and condescending.
— Sach Mar 1, 05:54 PM
^Sach, I agree with your “Sage Francis is self-proclaimed outsider hence his opinion is inconsequential” point
About underground rap fallin off in 2005-6, I completely disagree.
I’d encourage you to listen to say at least 2-3 albums I listed if you haven’t already. I feel quality exists but one has to “dig” for it. Luckily the “album download blogspot internets” like http://hhb.blogspot.com/ make “digging” much easier.
— NoMamesBuey Mar 1, 06:47 PM
I could never really get into any Anticon material because they just aren’t that good to me. Sage was actually decent but hearing them talk about “how come it ain’t like ‘87 anymore” just rubbed me the wrong way. How can they know about ‘87, especially where they are geographically based?? I’m from VA and back then 99.9% of white kids dissed rap and anyone that had it in rotation.
The whole generation of kids that learned about hip-hop from the Internet has also become a cause of why shit is wack today. It ain’t their fault…they just ain’t really down like that.
— P-Matik Mar 1, 06:54 PM
i couldn’t even read that entire bitchy letter by sage. lighten up, dude.
— alley al Mar 1, 07:24 PM
Nice piece. One of your best yet.
You diss Miracle, you diss yourself, though. “Huntin’ Season” and “Bounce” are money.
— BM Dawn Mar 1, 08:20 PM
like (some of) sages’s music. hate his whining. good piece.
— The ILLatino Mar 1, 08:33 PM
you guys are all dumbfucks for taking sage francis this seriously. if you think TWRS is anything decent or remotely “hip hop”, then go back to listening to madonna.
— HIPHOPLOL Mar 1, 09:21 PM
how someone could say that underground hiphop is where it was 10 years ago is crazy. super crazy if that. there might be interesting and quality albums coming out, but it surely isn’t hitting like when rawkus first came out, or when mf doom’s doomsday dropped… or hell, even when sage and those of his ilk first hit the scene. 05-06 underground hiphop is pretty shabby compared to other eras…
— khal Mar 2, 08:04 AM
flashpoint boiling controversial piece, talk about feedback
— sankofa Mar 2, 09:24 AM
Y’all are missing an important fact that this article is clearly ignoring. Black rappers and black fans started this separation and alienation! Whitey didn’t do it, they didn’t start it, nor were they the cause of it. Hell, the only thing that whitey was the cause of was all of the “black flight” that occurred in the late 90s.
The anti-mainstream, no sell out, anti-commercial ideology was created by black rappers and black fans in the early and mid-90s. They fueled the fire and kept it going for many years, long before whitey showed up on the scene en masse. By the time that whitey began integrating, infiltrating, and co-opting “underground rap music” (~1996-1997), the separation had already occurred… the “sub genre” was already created.
And as more and more whites got involved in the underground rap scene and actively participated in it, the less and less blacks started showing up at these functions. Having too many whiteys around no longer made it an exclusively black thing, so all of the “real” black hip hop heads had to jet.
But that’s America for ya. It happened with jazz, blues, and rock. And now whitey has “taken over” underground rap.
— phy6 Mar 2, 12:54 PM
My nearly 30 year’s as an “actual Hip-Hop fan” tells me that this article is pretty much bunko.
— El Keter ben Tzadik Mar 2, 02:06 PM
yeah, phy6, this separation occured before the mass white influx of “underground” fans, but that doesn’t seem to be the point.
It’s understandable that white fans would crave white rap heroes independent of actual skill—that’s as old as the Beastie Boys. It’s also understandable that a lot of “real” heads would exit the scene once corny rap nerds and newjacks (not only white people) started flooding the shows.
Fuck their bad taste and lack of historical context—that’s true of most young rap fans. The problem with this particular subset of fans and artists, as Klash said, is that a number of them implicitly tie intelligence and integrity to whiteness—not just any whiteness (Paul Wall and Bubba Sparxxx don’t count), but a self-consciously, defiantly non-black whiteness.
— eauhellzgnaw Mar 2, 02:49 PM
“a self-consciously, defiantly non-black whiteness.”
!
— StupidFresh Mar 2, 04:15 PM
“Sage Francis is a clownshoe” is what the headline of this arcticle should have been. Oh.. you didn’t know that? I see. You were too busy crying about indie rock and that “new” underground hip hop isn’t as good as the old underground hiphop scene. Oh, i guess i will only listen to radio rap and see where it gets me. So sage francis is crazy because he’s taking on the man… good story. I’m sorry your girlfriend dumped you for some guy that has a hard on for Anticon. That was one of the most non-entertaining, obviously personal attack of an arcticle i have ever read. Your sarcastic humor is lame.
— a stupid whitey from the midwest Mar 2, 04:47 PM
yea i agree with stupid whitey over there, why would you blame sage for his little letter? this show, despite the many many comical moments just because of sheer stupidity, is a huge joke – an unfunny one. if someone can find even one positive about this show aside from the comedy derived from, frankly, astray wiggers, they’re lying. many view this genre as a joke already, but lemme tell ya, this show did a LOT to change that. but yea, continue to criticize someone that justly criticized a tremendously enlightening program.
this dissing-underground-white-rappers trend just to show i’m not as lame/angry/backpackerish as them is getting stale and corny. you don’t get fukin “true hip hop” brownie points. step ya game up Sacha
— drew Mar 2, 05:12 PM
you motherfuckers are ignorant. I can’t remember the last time there was decent hip hop coverage on this site. You’re constantly trying to scrape together some kind of drama or putting up shitty little ghetto big mac videos in hopes of upping your little feedburner icon a bit. Well guess what, you have…. but peep this, I read programming blogs that have more readers than you guys. Pretty sure hip hop is still more popular than programming, so what the fuck does that say about you homos?
Seriously, get your dicks out of each others ass for long enough to actually do some music coverage… Unless “Oh Word” is actually a tongue in cheek reference to “Imma fuck Rafi Kam in the ass!”... “Oh Word?”. Won’t matter for me anyway. consider me permanently unburdened from your pitiful offerings.
Oh and good luck with your struggle against being terminally uncreative. fucking losers.
— Diss Illusioned Mar 2, 05:29 PM
Sorry that I broke your heart Mom.
Can we take this offline though? Our family issues are not for the world to see.
— Rafi Mar 2, 06:07 PM
We have an office pool going on here and we’re hoping that this topic will inspire more angry rants than the Rick Ross review
— Sach Mar 2, 06:24 PM
“I read programming blogs.”
‘Nuff said.
— R.H.S. Mar 2, 06:38 PM
Sach: like ya’ll have an office.
R.H.S. (Ridin’ his Sach?): oh so now, it’s not nerd rappers, it’s just nerds period? You think writing a blog on hip hop gets you out of nerd-dom? Guess what? You write a blog, you’re a nerd too, so don’t get uppity on me.
The real issue here is that ya’ll are gossip columnists. It’s like the motherfucking View around here… Damn… Dallas does look kinda like Starr Jones. Come to think of it Rafi could be Rosey O’Donnell’s ugly sister.
— Diss Illusioned Mar 2, 09:07 PM
Oh and Rafi, I’m not your mom, but I am considering fucking her. sloppy ass and all.
— Diss Illusioned Mar 2, 09:08 PM
oh, ye olde internerd. ye are the beast of the east. sounds like nothing has yet changed, et tu brute???
— midnightheory Mar 3, 01:23 AM
i just jock weezy now.
— kid krack wrock Mar 5, 12:52 AM
Diss Illusioned – just out of curiosity, are you white?
— R.H.S. Mar 5, 06:56 AM
To the guy who said Oh Word doesn’t have any good hip hop coverage: This IS good hip hop coverage. I’ve disagreed with some of the stuff posted here before, but this needed to be said and it was on point.
Sage Francis fans can come here to defend their idol all they want, but it’s true…hip hop heads are not the ones bumping his albums. The average hip hop listener doesn’t want to hear some dude half-singing about foreign policy over a 110 bpm track. Sage’s following is the state of Vermont, Volvo owners and kids at Vassar and Berkeley.
— DC Mar 5, 10:36 PM
While I do think he borders on pretentious self-indulgent elitism at times, the motherfucker does one hell of a live concert. In fact I’d rate a Sage show right up there with De La Soul as one of those life-affirming experiences that remind you what you loved about hip-hop in the first place and why you still do.
I have to admit when I first heard about TWRS concept I had my doubts too. VH1 tends to make a joke out of their reality shows and often does it with really bad taste. I was never on the “Flavor of Love” bandwagon, and “Surreal Life” seems to delight in making people self-destruct on camera, which even if they are D-list celebs leaves me feeling queasy since a real person’s life is on the line for a cheap not-so-funny laugh. How could you not suspect going in that VH1 would find a bunch of unsuspecting dopes and make a mockery of their love for hip-hop? Sage was right to have “A Healthy Distrust” of VH1.
— DJ Flash Mar 6, 06:08 PM
No, the mistrust was misguided. He should have given the good folks of Ego Trip the benefit of the doubt.
— R.H.S. Mar 7, 12:11 AM
Good points on both sides. being a white mc myself and having listened heavily to both underground and mainstream (and other various sub-genres)I think your damned if you do, damned otherwise… Your either too righteous or too shaped into the mold. Sage has put out some really dope and conscious songs in recent years (primarily on hope)and was also the only white performer (besides eyedea and grouch) to perform at rock the bells. I think that says something about his hip hop credibility, although I do agree that he has become a little messiahy as of late.
Im surprised nobody mentioned slug, who I consider to have an excellent position in the grey zone of white rappers who carry appeal for both races, shit Ive broughten black friends who werent really into underground, to an atmosphere show and they liked it. Sure slug writes alot of estrogen laden songs, but I believe his prose to be respectful of traditional hip hop while still staying modern or at least taking note of modern elements. Thats my neutral 2 cents. peace.
— cdub Mar 7, 12:11 AM
BTW, for those on here that commented that “2005-6” or “current” underground rap “sucks now”
Check the new Little Brother legally free album mixtape. This album is YE Top 10 worthy. Seriously it’s damn good. Real talk, no stannery.
Check it out yall
http://www.hallofjustus.com/justusforall.zip
— NoMamesBuey Mar 7, 11:53 PM
im a white emcee and i think it all comes down to skills.
— busch Apr 10, 04:59 AM