It takes a Nation of Haircuts to Hold Us Back

May 29, 2008

It takes a Nation of Haircuts to Hold Us Back · by Sach O

The Cool Kids with a scarfed Rachael Ray at the Dunkin Donuts commercial after-party

I’m going to move away from my usual M.O and pre-emptively kill some of the shit storm this post might cause. First off, I actually enjoy the Cool Kids’ Bake Sale E.P. for what it is. I think it’s unfair (though probably their own damn fault) that they get lumped with tasteless DJs and unbearable “rappers” like Flosstradamus, Kid Sister, Santogold, M.I.A and their ilk. Those people should be dragged to re-education camps to have their fingers smashed and larynx’ removed. Not the Cool Kids. Second, this isn’t in any way a screed, angry or otherwise against Tom Breihan. Been there, done that, clearly we disagree on a lot of rap related stuff and there’s no need to rehash old beef (no Weezy lyric). Consider this an editorial reply to his review of the aforementioned Cool Kids album.

We all clear? Good.

Hipster Rap exists. It’s not “an understood pejorative of deep meaninglessness”. It can be described very succinctly and accurately if anyone wants to bother as it has easily definable stylistic qualities. I’ll reduce it to a word that’s already been thrown around: “Meaningless”. Rap without a sense of purpose or importance created solely, to quote Chuck, for the sake of riddling, intended for an affluent, generally educated white audience wanting to dabble in the excesses of black music absent from more restrained contemporary rock without really investing themselves in the less comfortable aspects of black culture. This in turn infuses the genre with a perceived sense of irony and coyness and lack of sincerity because few think of the music as anything more than a big joke of debatable humour.

Now while I do think the Cool Kids are more talented than their peers and hope for their sake that they start associating with better emcees as their stock goes up, they do suffer from this meaninglessness. This has already been stated, but considering how pervasive this problem is in modern Hip Hop (hipster or not), I don’t think it should be brushed under the table. Additionally, thanks to their 88 shtick, it’s easy to pinpoint exactly where the Cool Kids fuck up. They’ve got the beats, their rhymes are fly and it’s hard to argue with their gear and haircuts but they lack the element that made EPMD, Rakim, Public Enemy, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G Rap, Biz Markie, De La Soul (the first hipster rappers?) and so many others so great.

Importance. The opposite of meaninglessness.

Rakim had the flyest “Gucci” gear out there but every word he said was a head trip. Kane could joke with the best of them but he still “took you there”. EPMD warned against the cross-over. Biz warned you about the vapours. Kool G Rap erased racism. De La Soul questioned damn near everything and Public Enemy? You knew what time it was. Hell even MCA from the Beastie Boys (the real first hipster rappers?) had A Year and a Day.

All of those 88 era rappers were fly and the Cool Kids know that. But they also had a lot to say and said it in a way that made audiences give a shit about the world around them in addition to looking fly and getting girls. The same way that it can be argued that the backpacker click of the late 90’s was all-content and no-style, it’s obvious that these retro-rappers only understand half of what makes their old favourites so special. Even if it’s the half you can dance to.

Of course the Cool Kids could just be really big fans of “Walking with a Panther” era Cool J…but no amount of revisionism can save that album from it’s own excesses even if audiences have sunk to that level since then. Besides, LL rapped iller.

Comments for "It takes a Nation of Haircuts to Hold Us Back"

100% on point. i wish i could convey my ideas this soundly.

— khal May 29, 02:10 PM
Ahem, I’ll start the shitstorm.

Sach, you’re on vacation in southeast asia and taking time to write a reply to a pitchfork review on the cool kids?? Let alone reading Pitchfork reviews of the Cool Kids. Retarded, dunny.

I’m not into Cool Kids but this meaningless/importance categorization you’ve set up as a definition of hipster rap is sketchy. What of all the meaningless rap that came out back in the golden era then? Is it Hipster rap too?

It’s also borderline supremacist to set up irony as something outside of black culture or valid black art. You hedge your bets by allowing that silliness and irony were also practiced by the old vets. So since you make that part of your argument poorly I wont get into responding to it too much. But it’s just plain false to assert that rap without purpose is any less worthwhile, less authentically black, authentically hip-hop or any more a creation of today’s age. If you want to say it’s not dope to rap about nothing that’s fine. But to say it’s for people who have a problem with black culture is weird. Is Black Culture so narrow that it is only about authenticity through political polemics or narratives in your view? Cuz I want the funk. I gotta have the funk.

Even the Chuck D quote “I don’t rhyme for the sake of riddling”, should be taken with a grain of salt. Chuck D used irony and various layers of meaning heavily. Even Jesus spoke in parables. If he wasn’t rapping for the sake of riddling, he was at least doing the opposite.

Oh and I really like what I’ve heard from Santogold. She makes good music. So there!

— Rafi May 29, 02:34 PM
Well damn Rafi started saying what I was thinking, except that I would have expected Tommy to piss all over Cool Kids because they have too many White fans.

It’s the Conscious Rap Fallacy: there was this time when Rap was meaningful (or worse, when rap was hip hop) so anything that is “meaningless” today is less worthy, less authentic, less hip hop.

I can parse the statement about “hipster rap” being for White people who enjoy irony (see also Stuff (retarded) White People Like) but artists can’t really help who their fans are. It’s kinda like the arguments made against De La Soul because they broke on college radio and were championed by MTV. It begs the question did Cool Kids set out to consciously make rap for hipster pleasure?

Now, if you want to toss in MIA et.al into the hipster rap category, which would be fine, would all hipster rap be meaningless? MIA seems to lack the irony gene, and probably attracts hipster fans for reasons other than those you lay out for their attraction to Cool Kids.

With Sense of Irony being a requirement of hipster status, and detachment is part of that sense, and with MIA (Diplo) and Cool Kids’ reliance on tick-tick-bap beats, referencing the past, hipsters can feel that in a way they can’t contemporary hip hop. Something in that cohort causes them to retreat into a shell. They think by loving the 80’s their being cool, when really they’re seeking the comfort of their trouble free youth, where today’s problems didn’t have to be taken on, just observed curiously.

— gandalf mantooth May 29, 03:49 PM
i’d imagine that the cool kids set out to attract the hipster set first, hip-hop blog crew 2nd (the cats who fuck with discobelle and low-bee, the sites i first heard about the cool kids, are a diff breed than heads who frequent nah right or 2dopeboyz)...

i think the main problem when trying to explain your disdain for things like this (read: hipster rap) is that you always end up being lumped into one of 2 sides, and its all or nothing. either you make hip-hop that has a message, or you make mindless music.

i personally don’t hear any substance in the cool kids work, same with cats like spank rock, and it trips me out when people throw those artists on a pedastal, like they are that new new. but, i can listen to someone like sean price, who is just spitting raw, and be content that the track was nothing more than a skill flex.

maybe its because the cool kids are wack writers.

— khal May 29, 03:58 PM
But why does all rap have to have meaning? Why can’t this music just stand on its own? Sure, it’s not much but what about Camp Lo? Is it okay to rap about dumb stuff so long as you have at least one song that is conscious?

The problem with some of the comments are phrases like “set out to attract…” How about they set out to make the kind of music that would like to hear? Why is it all just a game to get certain people to like you?

I just hate that art is only art if it has the “meaning” that any particular listener is looking for. Why can’t it just be art without having to stick up for anything?

I’m sure the Cool Kids (who seem to be young guys who should get some credit for being respectful of the past despite their age) are aware of what “importance” the original guys brought to the table. But, that doesn’t mean that they have to start rapping about Jane or a cultural revolution to make good music.

— Nathan Smart May 29, 04:31 PM
It’s taken some time for me to realize that this new wave of hipster-rappers is actually not a fad, but this generation’s contribution to hip-hop. Let’s get that out of the way.

My problem with them (and FYI i do not lump M.I.A. or Santogold, both dope, into this category… I don’t see them as hip-hop artists) is that they don’t seem to have any longevity because their “shtick” is based on a fad, a style of dress and a lifestyle that will change in a year or two.

If you go back a couple of years ago, how many of those new emcees are you really still bumping today? People have a problem with them (myself included) because it’s, I think, one of the first seemingly disparate waves to emerge from hip-hop but it’s only natural… look at rock n roll, jazz, etc.

— Anupa May 29, 05:08 PM
i don’t really think m.i.a. is a rapper (i definitely started enjoying her music a lot more once i came to this conclusion anyway) and has a lot of explicitly political content so she doesn’t meet your definition of hipster either.
also at least since the golden era you’re talking about i usually find the “meaningless” rappers tend to have as much to say as the “important” ones, and say it with more style too.
i haven’t heard the cool kids ep yet, but i liked the singles, so i’m definitely gonna check it out when i get the chance

— sizzle88 May 29, 05:16 PM
“The problem with some of the comments are phrases like “set out to attract…” How about they set out to make the kind of music that would like to hear? Why is it all just a game to get certain people to like you?”

I think its because there’s just SO MUCH HYPE for these artists, especially The Cool Kids. Hype is a double-edged sword, especially when it feels forced.

— khal May 29, 05:41 PM
Aren’t you a big Of Montreal fan? Didn’t you dig the new Gnarls album? How’s that not “hipster”-ish (by your definition) or ironic? Other than those not being rap albums, what’s the difference? It seems from this, that you have as much of an insular understanding of rap as any of those darned hipsters.

— brandonsoderberg May 29, 06:12 PM
“I think its because there’s just SO MUCH HYPE for these artists, especially The Cool Kids. Hype is a double-edged sword, especially when it feels forced.”

But you can’t blame The Cool Kids for hype they didn’t start. It’s not like they are showing up at premieres to movies they weren’t in.

(at least yet…)

— Nathan Smart May 29, 06:56 PM
Were you actually paid to write this piece? First of all, how does one lump the cool kids with santogold, who is a dynamic, talented SINGer, not rapper? Furthermore, do hipsters listen to the cool kids? No. they listen to little wayne. Nobody listens to the cool kids, because their raps are derivative and entirely unoriginal. How old are you, also?

— matt May 29, 08:15 PM
“But you can’t blame The Cool Kids for hype they didn’t start. It’s not like they are showing up at premieres to movies they weren’t in.”

No, they are just doing Rhapsody commercials.

— khal May 29, 10:22 PM
“lil wayne but in hollywood it’s little wayne”

— sizzle88 May 29, 11:19 PM
this post had so much potential but actually it sucks

first, rappers get called hipster rappers because they wear tight jeans. put someone like mickey factz in baggy jeans and tims and he’s just another new york rapper. but he smartened up and dressed well and now he gets attention. for a lot of rappers, “hipster” just means a new lane where you have access to new fans. watch donnie goines start wearing american apparell in 4…3…2…

second, look at all the fucking rap out there that has no importance or meaning. um, like, almost ALL of it. is nas really that much more meaningful that cool kids? does shawty really owe him for ice? smfh

whatev. not convinced. this post needs a sequel that’s coherent.

— chea May 30, 01:45 AM
this is pretty much right on, gentrification is a bitch

— Liam May 30, 03:09 AM
I think that:

1)The point that Sach is making about irony is not that irony in rap is inherently hipster/bad/meaningless, but that rap music that ironically enjoys rap music is HBM, if only because it demonstrates a lack of affection and devotion to the form.
2) Importance isn’t necessarily driven by politics or social commentary. Primarily aesthetic rap music like Camp Lo, Sean Price, or even Wu-Tang still has a driving artistic force behind it. “Skill flex” was a good term for it- you can feel the artist’s desire to be the best or to impress his audience. In a genre of music that is largely built by wit and technical rhyming ability, those two qualities are certainly more “important” than a haircut.
3) Rap doesn’t have to be “conscious” to be art.
4) If you’re in Southeast Asia, there are better ways to spend your time than reading Pitchfork. Like getting hep B from a whore in Bangkok who can play ping-pong with her vagina.

— david brown May 30, 03:47 AM
Doing a commercial doesn’t automatically make you a hype machine – it just gives you more money so you don’t have to work a freakin’ day job!

— Nathan Smart May 30, 10:21 AM
why’s anyone even talking about these dudes? really?

can you see them having any kind of legacy that anyone might want to talk about 5, 10, or 20 years from now?

reaching here… trying to make something out of nothing.

— J-Mass May 30, 10:28 AM
another reason i’m mad at this post© mad rapper “tell em why you mad shun!”

if you want to create a construct wherein you assign different levels of meaning to rap, the spectrum should not be “importance” on one end and “meaninglessness” on the other

it should instead be “importance” on the left, “meaningless” in the middle and “destructiveness” on the right

what i mean is, hipster rap might lack meaning, but it can hardly be as destructive as, say, a 50 cent or a young jeezy record that glorifies killing and coke dealing

now let’s be clear: i fux with jeezy. urly© freeway (no taliban beard — ok, taliban beard) mainly because to me, jeezy is nice (*gets self a super plate*)

but i acknowledge that his message ain’t the best thing for the young black youf

bottom line though, you can’t say hipster kids are being destructive by telling kids to pimp out their moped. ok maybe a little destructive to the testicular health (pause) of hipsters and nigsters the world over, but i digress. no real destruction going on.

again, i’m waiting for further explanation as to why this post isn’t garbidge© cipha’s nephew

— chea May 30, 11:35 AM
Every other black kid under 21 in North Flatbush Brooklyn (think Empire to Linden Blvd) dresses like the Cool Kids…kafiyahs, skateboards and everything. So it’s kinda tough to directly blame whitey for this one (but lets anyway). Hip-Hop is a strange bitch…kick-flips and tight jeans who woulda thunk it.

But why doesn’t anyone just say what the real reason to hate hipster rap is?

It comes across as fad obsessed, shallow, and kinda gay.

Now fad obsessed and shallow is Hip-Hop’s lifeblood but the queer-eye for the straight guy element is new. Overall it’ll be a good thing if Hip-Hop could shed some homophobia because of hipster rap but it’s doubtful. Hipsters of all types already make people angry. Expect a “kill the rap hipster” movement real soon.

— Enqido May 30, 12:02 PM
traffic ahoy with a just as interesting set of responses as the article itself

— sankofa May 30, 01:33 PM
I think Nathan pretty much summed it all up with “what about Camp Lo?” There’s a place for rappers who rap about nothing; it’s only a problem if there’s nothing with content to balance it out. Also, the importance/meaningless distinction makes no sense – what’s so meaningless about just rapping about yourself, and by extension, the human experience? Take Large’s “Just Hangin Out.” There’s no message or meaning per se (although I’m sure a Ph.D. in cultural studies could read something into it about Large’s sense of community vs. the every-man-for-himself individualism of a Mobb Deep), but it’s a great song because he captures the feeling of hanging out in your neighborhood on a summer day. Just as so many rappers have made a career capturing what it’s like to wear expensive shit or drive a nice car, and if you don’t have that stuff you can listen to them and imagine you do. I can’t call that meaningless. Also, you make it sound like Biz would’ve been a failure if he had never made Vapors, or The Great Adventures of Slick Rick would be an entertaining but ultimately meaningless record if it didn’t have Young World, and you must know that’s ridiculous. Biz would still be remembered if all he ever did was Make The Music With Your Mouth, and that’s a completely “meaningless” song.

— Tray May 30, 02:44 PM
good music is good music, you can’t tell someone else what hip hop is or what it should be, if it appeals to YOU thats all that matters, theres a lot of bullshit out there i won’t listen to, but some other people probably love it. Im tired of arguing about music, its an art a product and as consumers its our choice wheather or not we support the musicians and uy into the image or whatever they’re selling to us. Also, I’m tired of labels…“hipster”? “Backpacker”? “Gangster”? Im pretty sure all of this is HIP HOP just different facets, sub-cultures of Hip Hop. But you know Ill still stick with my Roots, Nas, Outkast and Collected Elements… Knowledge Reigns______! You know the rest

— Damian May 30, 02:51 PM
Social importance is an unfair litmus test for rap. In other genres, 95% of the songs out there are straight love songs. How are they important? How is instrumental music important? Content should the absolute LAST thing you look for in rap, except in very specialized cases. Musical composition, lyrical delivery, cadence, rhyming structure, cleverness or quality of rhymes; these all rank above content. It’s music, not a commencement speech, and it should be judged as such.

— TT May 30, 03:31 PM
In other genres, 95% of the songs out there are straight love songs.

^

or hipster music which just makes zero sense whatsoever

word life the crackers where i work listen to this group called “guided by voices” where a dude gets drunk and rambles for two minutes and that’s a song

and may God strike me down if these crackers don’t think these cats are brilliant and moving and ease human suffering and shit

that’s why i listed to jeezy, he ain’t trying to be deep — pause — he just keeps it fly

gets 87s tailorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrred

— chea May 30, 04:44 PM
Damn, really well written piece. But I just don’t see how importance, aka the opposite of meaningless, is the definition of great rap. It may as well have been 100 years ago back when Chuck D said that rap was the black CNN. Times have changed, kids don’t need Chuck D telling them what’s going on. If anything they should be taught to form opinions on their own since now adays they are equipped with all the necessary information.

Besides, I agree with TT, aesthetic values are all that we have to enjoy in art. When Chuck D says “Fight the Power!” all that does is make you unlistenable 10 years later. Its like trying to enjoy Eminem these days but cringing whenever he brings up NSYNC. I’d much rather listen to the beauty of a detail rich story about a meaningless drug deal, or the ironic nostalgia of the hood.

— Roam May 30, 07:15 PM
I agree with this, But M.I.A. doesn’t belong in your ilk. She’s not a rapper, she’s a dance artist, and her first two albums have all been centered on the misconceptions and bullshit she’s had to deal with being a Tamil Immigrant in Europe, it’s masked by dance/electronica/house music and lyrics, but she’s talented in her own right.

— Cannon May 30, 08:00 PM
So what you’re telling me is that those kids who laid the foundation for hip hop are, by your definition, hipster? All they were trying to do was turn a party out, albeit in a creative — now revolutionary — manner.

The basis for the creation of hip hop was to have fun, not to engage with a “higher” message. Cudos to the genre for evolving, but to call something without a true message, as you define it, “meaningless” is ignorant and frankly malicious.

— Goods May 30, 09:57 PM
that is not rachael ray

— Jay B May 31, 02:04 AM
rachel ray could catch it, you can tell from her mouth that she got skillz

— chea May 31, 03:23 AM
Sach, your impulses are right. You’re on to something, but I don’t know if meaninglessness/importance is the right way to frame the issue.

What’s clear to me is that hipster rap is terrible on a technical level: the beats and rhymes suck. The artists often have no rhythm or flow and appeal to their fans based largely on image and the appearance of novelty (whoa! a female rapper from the UK? A nerdy black dude in tight jeans! Somebody who samples <insert obscure hipster icon musician> Sign me up!) Like all bad rap, hipster rap is aimed at people who are too lazy to look beyond the surface.

Forget meaning/importance. Hipster rap lacks SOUL.

— eauhellzgnaw May 31, 03:48 AM
A few replies.

“Sach, you’re on vacation in southeast asia and taking time to write a reply to a pitchfork review on the cool kids?? Let alone reading Pitchfork reviews of the Cool Kids. Retarded, dunny.”

I got stuck for 12 hours in a town with nothing but an internet cafe and a noodle soup shop (globalisation, ain’t it grand?). And I can only eat so much noodle soup.

“Aren’t you a big Of Montreal fan? Didn’t you dig the new Gnarls album? How’s that not “hipster”-ish (by your definition) or ironic?”

Well, Cee-Lo has claimed that Gnarls Barkley includes his most personal lyrics to date and Of Montreal regularly cover bands like the Grateful Dead in concert by prefacing that they enjoy the music and aren’t being ironic. Sooo…I stand by those acts by the standards I’ve established. Both of those acts have years of work under their belts and I’m not about to disrespect them because of their fans. You don’t see me complaining about Ghostface getting props from Modest Mouse fans either.

“Everything that David Brown wrote”

Yes. Except I recommend jimmy hats. No one wants to go out like Easy.

“It comes across as fad obsessed, shallow, and kinda gay.”

Possibly the only thing I could have written that would have pissed more people off.

“what about Camp Lo?”

I don’t think Camp Lo rapped about nothing, there was an element of righteousness in those pimp/heist diatrabes but interesting comparison none the less. This is the point where I remind everyone that I enjoyed the Bake Sale EP. Kind of for the same reasons I enjoy Camp Lo, although the Kids aren’t quite in the same league.
—————————

Interesting responses. Keep em coming.

— Sach May 31, 05:48 AM
the cool kids strike me as a more mellow clipse with a fascination for fashionista mick jagger pants and the eighties instead of crack

— sankofa May 31, 08:29 AM
“It comes across as fad obsessed, shallow, and kinda gay.”
^^^
lol, In many ways I think that could be used as a criticism of rap (or generation y) as a whole, but perhaps more so for hipsters.

— Liam May 31, 11:50 AM
If they’re writing about hip hop on Pitchfork I’m not trusting it for shit because I know the guy that wrote it is usually rocking shit like Guided By Voices.
Hipster kids like hip hop when it’s convenient and safe for them. They’ll spend a lot of time saying they support their “scene” or what have you, but you’re not gonna see most of them at a hip hop show. They’re lazy and The Cool Kids were fed to them with a spoon. Everything on a hipsters list of great things requires very little effort these days. Only money, which they all seem to have plenty of. Besides…..six months ago it was Weezy that they were jocking so give it some time and they will find a new huggable jock. That will probably be the name of the group too. The Huggable Jocks.

— Franklin Mint May 31, 01:28 PM
In Sacha’s defense— not that he needs anybody to defend him, but still— it was a review written by Breihan for Pitchfork and Breihan, whether you like him or not, is indeed a hip-hop writer.

— brandonsoderberg May 31, 04:22 PM
That’s not Rachael Ray. Remove that caption, homie.

— Jay B May 31, 07:57 PM
lol jay b. have you been reading this site for 3 years and still don’t understand?

— Rafi May 31, 09:00 PM
maybe the didnt do so well because of badprmotion because i sure as hell didnt know their album dropped

— Lana Jun 1, 08:22 AM
That’s not Rachel Ray?!

I was gonna try to say something interesting about this post until I saw that shit.

lol.
Oh Internets, when will you get your sense of humor back.

Ill caption btw.

— start snitching Jun 1, 03:45 PM
Can I get a late pass for this drop?

I’ve been madd busy getting my Surya Bonaly twisted off after the Wale freestyle reference to Oksana Baiul.

I feel you Sach.

Fucking with the Cool Kids is like eating a hot dog bun filled with dogshit sprinkled with M & M’s.

That is the rap shit that Tom likes. He likes to do the Chicken Noodle Soup. RedMan & Raekwon? Not so much. We can Google all that if we cared.

Wale is a hipster rapper that has swagger jacked Lil’ Wayne’s heavily non-sequitur embedded flow and he kills with the shit.

I gotta also ask if B is Tom really a Hip-Hop writer, or is he a music writer with thoughts on Hip-Hop music?

— DP Jun 1, 05:03 PM
well sach, i am going to have to go ahead and disagree. first, MIA’s music is not meaningless and only someone who has not listened to “Arular” would say that, as teh title itself is her father’s fighting name against the Sri Lankan government (which she got into trouble for, namely being banned from many western countries including the US for quite some time). How is this meaningless?
In addition, how is hipster rap meaningless, particularly in the case of Cool Kids? While i do not care much for their music (or most of their ilk), what is so difficult about understanding that artistry is about making your own meaning? So, they make their own meaning from what they appreciate and experience.. such as BMX’s and a penchant for gucci frames and the brand with three stripes. Personally, i just think their music is too repetitive, but that’s me. Sometimes I don’t want to be impassioned by hiphop; sometimes i just want to chill and not think. Don’t we all have those albums? Maybe that’s just what the Bake Sale EP is to the kids..

— thoreauly77 Jun 1, 08:41 PM
I gotta jump back in real quick and tell Sach thx for coming thru and sparking minds.

Some of you cats need Hip-Hop 101. Before we move our bodies (hop) we get our minds right (hip).

You know what the Teacha says. You have to respect that on some Rabbinical shiite. Nah’mean?!?

— DP Jun 2, 01:24 AM
DP-
To really answer,we could get into a discussion of what is meant by “hip-hop”, if it’s simply a genre or a state of mind or something then it’s up for debate, but in terms of being a guy engaged by hip-hop, he is.

Maybe it doesn’t mean much but Tom’s earliest published writing- for Baltimore’s City Paper- are reviews of Geto Boys, Three-Six, TI, Ghostface etc. and that’s like four years ago.

— brandonsoderberg Jun 2, 08:23 AM
“I don’t think Camp Lo rapped about nothing, there was an element of righteousness in those pimp/heist diatrabes but interesting comparison none the less.”

Well, what insight do you have where you know that Camp Lo was being genuine but you can’t be certain of the Cool Kids’ “righteousness?”

I think it’s unfair to talk about people’s intentions until you’ve at least seen proper behavior to justify judgment on someone we don’t personally know. For instance, we’ve seen the behavior we need to see of Kanye to know that his intentions in making music are completely self-satisfying.

— Nathan Smart Jun 2, 11:08 AM
Nice post; it’s prompted a good dialogue.

I think that most rap fans, some more than others, struggle with how they can coherently account for taste. Sometimes there are subtle, perceptible but ill-defined reasons that some shit is strong and other shit is wack. At other times, the difference is stark and obvious. And often, for me, taste can be informed by more than just beats and rhymes (though you ultimately do have to liked how it sounds). For example, ignoring his boring boasts and stock themes, 50 has become so odious because he perpetuates so many social ills and helps to foster an ugly culture around the music.

As for the Cool Kids and this so-called “hipster rap”—I like something hellzgnaw wrote. I think that a reason people who consider themselves “true” hip-hop heads don’t like (or perhaps feel threatened by) this disingenuous interest in rap music that is easily fit under the “hipster” umbrella owes to a sense that it is a whimsical interest that neglects the substance below the surface and instead exploits or even apes the aesthetics, both in sound and look. And this, to me, speaks to the fact that rap music, fair or not, is inextricably linked to a complicated social component, black experience, as represented in our culture. (And that matters, of course, because of the nation’s ongoing and neglected racial dilemma.) Hip-Hop becomes much more than music, and to ignore the attendant themes and issues that the music summons is a kind of partial participation that lacks credibility. Further, to potentially exalt music that makes light of some serious shit without acknowledging the gravitas can feel exploitative and corrosive. It’s part of why I tire of the Clipse and the distinct critical fan base that treats their endless glorification of drug dealing as timeless artwork. I don’t always articulate this point well, but I think that’s what I, personally, find to be discomforting about “hipster” rap. It’s less about the music itself—if I don’t like something, I just won’t listen—and more about who is consuming it, how taste makers are elevating it, and what those implications are for rap music and the discussion around it.

And a note about Breihan, who may be a “hip-hop writer”—I grew so sick of what I read as his naive festishizing of rap long ago that I stopped reading his writing. So I can’t really speak with authority about his recent reviews or essays. But what I remember of him is precisely what causes my concern when contemplating these subjects.

— Joey Jun 2, 02:11 PM
“that’s what I, personally, find to be discomforting about “hipster” rap. It’s less about the music itself—if I don’t like something, I just won’t listen—and more about who is consuming it, how taste makers are elevating it, and what those implications are for rap music and the discussion around it.”

So, wait. If the ‘wrong type’ of fan starts to enjoy hip hop, it becomes something to distrust and ridicule?

— Eddie Cicero Jun 2, 02:48 PM
MF DOOM would say something like: video killed the radio star.

— Roam Jun 2, 04:15 PM
Super quick here:

SACH you sound like A GRANNY.

I can’t see some of the above mentioned in terms of “fad” at all. Just different types of artists (kids) owing more to globalization, mobile recording technology, and better access to music. I think putting them in one boat fails to do them justice. Was Sheila E a rapper? Egyptian Lover a hipster? DMX crew a fashion? Afrika Bambaataa had nothing to say?

Here’s some public access TV from Detroit in the 80s/90s:
http://youtube.com/user/aseagris

A lot of the better stuff that’s happening in “black” music (tired designation) is more a product of OTHER musical strains than hip-hop purists would take the time to thoroughly explore. i.e. african, kuduro, baile, dancehall, dub/reggae, Detroit techno, dub. These can’t be treated like flavor-of-the-month styles any more. They BEEN here, and they get around. Different strains in the lineage is all. Kool Herc was a reggae DJ. Yadda Yadda. Also, go to an event with some of the people I’m about to mention and see mixed crowds getting gully, and literally bouncing off the walls. A bunch of dudes watching a bunch of dudes rap, is lame.

There is an Underground. And I’ll take it over Kanye, 50, and the rest.

The Cool Kids are OK. I see them more in terms of “regional” stuff, just like Houston stuff has its own production style, and Bay Area shit has its own fashion/attitude, so does a lot of other shit popping off in different cities (not just in the US). I don’t know a thing about present-day Chi Town though.

I’m not sold on Santogold being more than fluff and formulas, but MIA is more unique than these cookie-cutter industry hoes by a MILE (please refer to previous Sheila E reference). She’s not trying to be a rapper. Yeah, it’s only natural that these artists get lumped together, but the discussion as to why is a tricky/humorous one. Subtance depends on what you’re looking for.

Oh Nerd needs to back up a bit. I think youre funny but sometimes hella narrow. There are serious peoples in the underground, taking/piecing together music from the pieces the pick up; be they cultural , sonic, historical. Their productions tend towards the technically stellar (better), and miles more original than most of “hipster rap” (or any name-your-golden-eraboom-bap, backpack, or just plain rap).

Plemty more to say here…

NEW SHIT I LIKE RIGHT NOW:
Mavado
Shadetek
Vybz Kartel
DJ Blaqstarr
Maga Bo
DJ/ Rupture
Wiley / Boy Better Know
NYC Trouble and Bass parties
Dutty Artz
The Pack
London Music (dubstep, grime, bassline)
Turf Talk (Droop-E productions)
Tego Calderon

OLD SHIT I LIKE RIGHT NOW:
-Goodie Mobb esp “Self Therapy”
-Public Enemy live at Brixton Academy
-Too $hort vinyl
-Camp Lo
-Black Moon
-Outkast
-Ghetto Brothers (Harlem ’74)
-Above the Law
-Robert Hood
-Super Cat
-Sheila Muthafuckin’ E

— PURL Jun 2, 06:03 PM
when i think of hipsters i think of grungy manhattan white guys who don’t see anything wrong with getting a blowjob from a male friend every now and again, and is willing to do whatever it takes to be “different” from the crowd – which entails making and pretending to enjoy music that is obviously awful to anybody with one ear and enough integrity to fill a shot glass, and the occasional vacation in Rainbow Town.

— M Jun 2, 10:34 PM
Its definitely unfair to lump Santogold and MIA into this Breihan rap category.

They are artists that address specific experiences with a wide range of sounds.

Fish out of water, aspiring artist, immigrant/outsider, etc.

The Voice actually wrote up some respectable articles about MIA’s Kala earlier in the year. Whether or not her voice is annoying she is working on more than the Im indie level.

@#47 – The wrong types of fans definitely fuck up the music.

Dont tell me youve never been at a show where the crowd fucked it up.

Also, Sach, your defense of Camp Lo over Cool Kids is weak.

“Undercover faggot lovers” as Camp Lo rapped on a “USN” song has no more social redemption than “Mikey Rocks.”

Cmon, admit shit gets a little personal and arbitrary at times.

— start snitching Jun 3, 12:45 AM
“when i think of hipsters i think of grungy manhattan white guys who don’t see anything wrong with getting a blowjob from a male friend every now and again, and is willing to do whatever it takes to be “different” from the crowd – which entails making and pretending to enjoy music that is obviously awful to anybody with one ear and enough integrity to fill a shot glass, and the occasional vacation in Rainbow Town.”

Yeah, but what do you think about gay people?

— Nathan Smart Jun 3, 07:56 AM
I don’t have a problem with them, but I’m not into the idea of hiphop going gay either.

— m Jun 3, 03:10 PM
sounds like you definitely have a picture of what it means to be gay in your head

— Nathan Smart Jun 3, 05:17 PM
Hip-hop can be many things. Sadly today almost all “rap” music that is commercially available is garbage. I have always felt that hip-hop should be conscious and educational, or at the very least funny. I heard some garbage-ass “she wants to f-” song on the radio the other day, and I almost crashed my truck to save my ears…
But I guess that’s what the people want to hear, that’s why it’s on the radio. The Cool Kids are not my style at all but they’re better than a lot of what’s out there.

— the SHWAMY Jun 3, 05:24 PM
nathan: well, i’ve met gay people before, if that’s what you mean. i’m sorry… i hope i didn’t offend you.

— M Jun 3, 11:47 PM
I’m not offended, I just think it’s a little weird to be throwing out the “gay card” just because you don’t like the way someone looks or the sound of their music.

— Nathan Smart Jun 4, 07:32 AM
i’m not trying to be facetious. hipsters seem to me to be an offshoot of the metrosexual of the early ’00s, except they’ve extended that desire to seem different to music and fashion on top of sexuality. just like Judas Priest, a band fronted by an openly gay man, pretty much invented heavy metal as we know it, and inspired a whole nation of metalheads to wear the kind of outfits that wouldn’t look out of place at the Blue Oyster without them even knowing that they’re dressing like gay people, i think that’s happening here, albeit on a much smaller level.

— M Jun 4, 02:28 PM
“i’m not trying to be facetious. hipsters seem to me to be an offshoot of the metrosexual of the early ’00s, except they’ve extended that desire to seem different to music and fashion on top of sexuality.”

Yup. That was my point. Anyone who came up on Hip-Hop in the 90’s knows that the hipster rap aesthetic would have been a short trip to a long beatdown. So while we don’t agree with the bias we can’t see these kids and NOT think “Wow that right there is kinda gay”.

But anyway, another more legitimate reason to hate hipster rap is the obnoxious self-absorbed biting of past styles that passes for reverence for those who came before.

Awkwardly co-opting a style and getting it comically wrong in the process is not what young black America is supposed to do. (Flat-top cuts and boombox radios don’t go together stupid! That’s why Radio Raheem was the neighborhood weirdo. He was an anachronism then ya fucking dummy!)

Young Black America is supposed to innovate so that White and Japanese people can co-opt our style down the line (Latinos you’re Black in this analysis).

It’s just the way the circle of cultural life has spun since…well since forever but lets say since the blues invented America’s modern musical heritage.

Somehow the game done got fucked up, Blancos and the Japanese are telling young Black America how to dress and rap and the results speak for themselves.

Listen I have nothing against my White and Japanese bredren, but there is a reason why the black man is the recognized global ambassador of cool. From speech patterns to slow stroll bop, black people (yes sisters y’all too) birthed this cool shit.

But now instead of creating a new 2008 rebranding of cool, the ironically labeled Cool Kids and their hipster cohorts (Retro Kids, MIA, whoever the hell else) reach back into the past to duplicate an aesthetic that they have no direct knowledge of.

Styles of clothing, speech, rap, etc. are the physical manifestation of an emotional moment in time. To rip a style out of its place, plunk it down into the now, and front like you understand it is just fucking wack.

Evoke it, emulate it, try to build on its spirit, but cop some old clothes for dumb hipster prices and pose like you’re innovating something? C’mon man that deserves a beatdown or endless fucking ridicule at best.

That mi gente, is why hipster rap sucks.

— Enqido Jun 4, 07:17 PM
^^
That’s a closer, isn’t it?

— Dan Love Jun 4, 07:49 PM
Enquido,

Color it however you want, but your post is racist and homophobic.

“Anyone who came up on Hip-Hop in the 90’s knows that the hipster rap aesthetic would have been a short trip to a long beatdown. So while we don’t agree with the bias we can’t see these kids and NOT think ‘Wow that right there is kinda gay.’”

Oh yeah, I forgot about the 90s when it was okay to beat up gay people (or people we suspect are gay because of the way they dress). It’s no wonder De La Soul killed the D.A.I.S.Y. Age – they didn’t want it killing them!

“Somehow the game done got fucked up, Blancos and the Japanese are telling young Black America how to dress and rap and the results speak for themselves.”

Wow, so dissing an entire race and a section of another is where we’re going in the debate on whether or not The Cool Kids make good music.

Yeah, that’s intelligent discourse.

— Nathan Smart Jun 5, 12:03 PM
yeah, he went a tad overboard for me. but the root point we’re trying to make here is that there is something a bit gay about hipsters. and not gay in the baseless schoolyard you’re-so-gay kind of way, but more like in the this-whole-fashion-and-style-was-pioneered-by-slightly-gay-people kind of way.

— m Jun 5, 01:32 PM
Which is still a sort of homophobic thing to say. I’m not saying you’re homophobic, I’m just saying it’s not proper.

By the way, what does “slightly-gay” mean?

— Nathan Smart Jun 5, 03:17 PM
see comment 50.

— M Jun 5, 03:34 PM
What if I said this:

“when i think of African Americans i think of grungy Alabama black guys who don’t see anything wrong with getting a blowjob from a crack whore every now and again, and is willing to do whatever it takes to be more “gangsta” than the crowd – which entails making and pretending to enjoy music that is obviously awful to anybody with one ear and enough integrity to fill a shot glass, and the occasional vacation in Fourty Town.”

Would that be an okay generalization to make?

— Nathan Smart Jun 5, 03:43 PM
hey… nobody said anything about “proper” or “okay generalizations” except you. that’s your crusade. i didn’t come here to be pc. sometimes generalizations hurt because they’re false, but just as often because they’re true. i don’t agree with yours, but i do agree with mine. i think the hipster culture has a significant dose of gay mixed in, thanks to the metrosexual scene that was pretty big in NYC, which, many would agree, is also the home of the hipster.

— M Jun 5, 05:05 PM
if we limit this discourse to the non-homophobic, non-racist, and non-offensive it won’t be very useful and definitely won’t be truthful.

— Enqido Jun 5, 07:16 PM
and yes if i understand my history correctly that is exactly why De La killed the D.A.I.S.Y age.

Homophobia is stupid and ironically it’s also pretty gay. But it’s real and most of us do it in some way or another. Racism is also stupid but it’s like America’s operating system (deeper than Windows it’s like old-school DOS or the cotdamn motherboard BIOS). I’m just trying to be new millennium with mine and at least cop to it. It ain’t fair, it ain’t equal, it ain’t just, it ain’t right. But it IS. Just because I ranted on white people and japanese people in that post doesn’t mean i don’t have plenty of equally racist things to say about a bigger group than “some” black people.

But back to Hiptserism, it just pushes all the right hate buttons starting with the pretentious fashion and continuing with pretentious music (brain too lazy for synonym). So therefore I hate.

— Enqido Jun 5, 07:44 PM
once your only base for discussing Cool Kids and like minded artists is fashion you’ve completely lost all cred, not to mention losing cred for calling everything gay. What are we, BOL or something?

Also, the notion that White and Japanese people are telling young black yoot how to a)dress and b)rhyme is ridiculous.

Also, let’s face it, the faux thug, bag and sag look is completely played out. To quote my wife, “What woman is going to find that attractive?” (my unsaid answer, “Superhead.”) Also, who do you think thugs have sex with in jail?

— gandalf mantooth Jun 5, 09:36 PM
“Also, the notion that White and Japanese people are telling young black yoot how to a)dress and b)rhyme is ridiculous.”

well if you’re going to use my own words against me in an argument…aight somewhere in my ridiculous ranting is a point. That part probably ain’t it.

Man, finding an intellectual justification for hating kids who rhyme about catching fish while wearing really tight pants is harder than one would expect. But if you sift through my nonsense it’s in there somewhere.

— Enqido Jun 5, 10:14 PM
I think Descartes said this:

“Racism exists, therefore I am.”

— Nathan Smart Jun 9, 09:26 AM
Hipster rap may be a fad, but the revisionist, “there’s no such thing as black music; it’s just music, dude” Up-with- people-ization of rap is the future of rap discourse, academic or not.

— eauhellzgnaw Jun 9, 11:24 AM
To those who are worried about hip hop “going gay” because a few rappers that everyone will forget about in 2 years are running dressed like a bunch of Williamsburg fashion victims – Sorry but it already happened, back in about 1980 or so. Take a look at this photo of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five:

http://www.jeepbastard.com/gallery/34furious_five_fashion_small.jpg

I rest my case.

— MG Jun 9, 05:38 PM
This thread is now officially the Kanye is middle class thread from last year.

— Rafi Jun 9, 05:39 PM
I don’t know where some of you overly defensive, decidedly anti-‘hood revenge of the nerds wish-upon-a-star types rest your heads, but over here in the NYC metro area baggy jeans are very much resurgent, with the pendulum having swung from hipster-tight to straight-leg and back to baggy in a fairly short amount of time. Sorry to break the news.

— R.H.S. Jun 9, 05:58 PM
Baggy is back？ Damn, I guess I can come back from Asia now.

Also，to this day I can’t figure out how hipster can mean coked up overly fashionable white male in tight jeans with an wack haircut who listens to Vampire Weekend and scruffy white male who wears Common circa Like-Water-for-chocolate thrift wear while playing Beastie Boy b-sides and Frank Zappa albums after bong hits.

— Sach Jun 10, 09:39 AM
HYPNOTIC BRASS ENSEMBLE SUMMER LINEUP

http://hypnoticbrass. net/

4 The Blue Note, Friday, 6/13 – West 3rd Street, NYC, NY
4 July 5, London (venue TBA)
4 July 9, Lyons, France (venue TBA)
4 July 12, Lincoln Center, NY
4 July 14-23, UK Tour (venue TBA)
4 July 25, Hip Hop Street Festival, Brooklyn, NY
4 August 1-4 Ireland (venue TBA)
4 August 14,Sun Ra Tribute, Millineum Park, Chicago

Hypnotic Brass Ensemble

FEATURING:
Gabriel Hubert, trumpet
Saiph Graves, trombone
Tycho Cohran, sousaphone
Amal Baji Hubert, trumpet
Jafar Baji Graves, trumpet
Seba Graves, trombone
Tarik Graves, trumpet
Christopher Anderson, drums
Uttama Hubert, baritone

Judging solely form the instrumentation of the Hypnotic Brass Ensemble, it would be tempting, though misleading, to look to the New Orleans’s famous brass-band tradition as the group’s inspiration. In fact, the musical lineage of Hypnotic’s members stems from the rich, progressive jazz scene cultivated in Chicago during the 1960s and ’70s. The seven brass players in the group are all sons of the esteemed jazz trumpeter Phil Cohran, a former member of the Sun Ra Arkestra, but perhaps best known as a founding member of the seminal Chicago-based jazz collective the Association for the Advancement of Creative Musicians (AACM).

The members of the Hypnotic Brass Ensemble were steeped in this musical influence from early on and have been playing music together their entire lives. After performing in a youth ensemble put together by their father, in the 1980s, the band officially formed as the Hypnotic Brass Ensemble in 1999, and relocated to New York in 2005.

The band embraces AACM’s collective approach to music making.
While Hypnotic’s music is a far cry from the free-wheeling, party atmosphere surrounding New Orleans brass bands, the group strives to make its musical roots speak to and for its own generation, infusing imaginative jazz arrangements with a hip-hop sensibility

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